Possible EPI - please help

[Winnieph1]

Hi Paige,

SOOOoooo glad your new vet ran the TLI test! At least now you have a diagnosis and can proceed with the right treatment!

Since you live in the UK..... please look up CHEMEYES, LLC
https://chemeyes.co.uk/
..... they are our "go-to" resource for EPI in the UK. They are real easy to work with, have great products and if you have ANY questions, ask to talk to Cameron or Suj.

If you go with their enzymes... please go with their high strength powder: https://chemeyes.co.uk/product/pancreatic-enzymes/
they also have the appropriate B12 pills WITH intrinsic factor (same as what we use here is the USA) https://chemeyes.co.uk/product/vitamin-b12-capsules/

I know SLippery Elm powder is available in the UK.... trype it in your browser and see what pops up... it is better to get the powder so you can control how much you use............

Thank you for this information, it’s so vital. We’ve got the initial enzymes and b12 from the vet but as this will be lifelong we will certainly look elsewhere to find them. I’ve been using slippery elm for a little while already, and it definitely helped through the really bad poop times. She’s on day 3 of enzymes and we’ve seen such an improvement already and she’s starting to act like her old mischievous self, which just makes me so happy to see. I’ll notice her weight over the next few weeks to see how that goes, but so far so good.

[Eddiespaghetti]

It is pretty amazing how quick the enzymes make a difference. I always joke around about Eddie. I don't know how to deal with him when he is healthy. He is exploring and running. I am glad you are seeing an improvement and I am hoping you keep seeing it

[Olesia711]

Hi Paige,

SOOOoooo glad that you are starting to see Winnie's old self emerge once again .

Please continue to keep us posted!

[Winnieph1]

Hey all, I wanted to give you an update and also ask for some additional advice. It might be that I need to start a new thread. Winnie has responded really well to enzymes and a b12 supplement over the past few months. She was putting on lots of weight and her poos were perfect! A few weeks back we noticed her drinking lots of water, so off we went back to the vets to get it checked out. It turns out she is now diabetic, and we are having to give 2 insulin injections each day. She’s currently fitted with a freestyle libre device so we can see her glucose levels which has been a life saver whilst we start to understand her new condition.

She’s had a really bad spell this past week, vomiting, haemorrhaging diarrhoea - she wouldn’t even keep water down. She’s been in the vets for two days on an IV whilst they monitor. Unfortunately this spell has completely put her off her original food that was doing wonders for her EPI. We’ve had to switch to one that we know is more palatable to get her interested, it’s a sensitive stomach one whilst she recovers for the meantime but her poops really aren’t great on it. She didn’t eat for 4 days, under vet supervision, and we are back to her lowest weight again, it feels like the hard work and progress we have made over the months has reverted.

Does anyone have experience with EPI and a diabetic diet or any recommendations on food? We are keen to give her the best, but we also want it to be something she enjoys eating. I’ve tried googling companies but they never seem to coincide on both, it’s either one or the other.

Thanks for listening,
Paige and Winnie! Also attaching a cute photo of her with her new little glucose device.

[Olesia711]

oh my... Winnie is such a cutie!!! And thanks for the picture... so THAT is where they attach the device! I have always wondered.

My Izzy had EPI at 1+1/2 year old and then developed Diabetes at 7 years old and lived for another 8 years with both conditions. SO this is all "do-able"

My Izzy was 45 lbs... when she was diagnosed with Diabetes, they also diagnosed her with IMHA at the same time. She too lost weight ...(10lbs) and went down to 35lb where she pretty much remained for the rest of her life. But we were comfortable with the 35lbs. (she was a wee bit chunky at 45lbs

So.. with the Diabetes.... very important, if/when they remove the device and you have to test her blood yourself... be sure to give the breakfast and dinner meals right around 12 hours apart and try to be timely... IMHO, you have about a 30 minute leeway, but other than that if you are not consistent with the food and insulin ... the blood sugar will be hard to manage (and keep fairly even).

Regarding the food.... with EPI + Diabetes, give the Diabetes condition preference!!!
If you have to feed a food that is not so optimal with the EPI condition but works great with the Diabetes condition, to compensate, just give a little more enzymes to make the food more agreeable with the EPI condition..

With the Diabetes, some EPI + Diabetes dogs aren't too hard to manage, but with many of them, dealing with both conditions simultaneously can be a little trickier than dealing with only one or the other condition.

There are some (very few) dog foods out there that are designed for Diabetic dogs.... BUT... they cost an arm and a leg and don't always work well anyway. I used to recommend Annamaet Lean & Grain Free that REALLY worked... but then, the company changed the formula and started including lots of peas/lentils and that made a mess with most of our EPI + Diabetic dogs.

What i did was feed 20% of an average grade grain free kibble (no peas or peas was low on the ingredient list) and the rest 80% was home-made (baked skinned, mashed sweet potato, lean baked meat (white chicken meat/ lean pork loin/white fish) cooked: kale/spinach/string beans/squash. Since my dog was also able to handle dairy, i included low fat or no fat cottage cheese (as part of the protein) and also gave 1 range free egg a couple of times a week. I also gave EFAs /fish oil... daily. Once Izzy developed Diabetes i no longer could give her Coconut oil .... And i gave her a quality doggie vitamin every single day to make sure she was getting the necessary vitamins and minerals... and i also gave her bone meal to make sure she rec'd the correct amount of bone matter that folks often forget when home feeding........

*** WHat i noticed was with the Diabetes part... i had to (1) limit fatty stuff AND (2) avoid too many carbs really made the blood sugar spike.... By preparing mostly home-made i was able to control the ingredients that kept her blood sugar in line, i added the kibble to keep the weight on her.

Back then i wasn't aware of this, but nowadays, if you prepare home-made meals, you can add something like Mercola Meal Mix which is a supplement to home-made food with proper minerals and vitamins.

Hope this helps a little AND.......... no need to start a new thread... best if you continue with the same thread that way we have her history all in one place.

[Olesia711]

these pages have some information regarding diet that might be helpful to you:

https://epi4dogs.com/feeding-diabetic-dog/
https://epi4dogs.com/epi-with-diabetes/
https://epi4dogs.com/diabetes/

https://epi4dogs.com/diet-raw-home-prepared-recipes/

[Patsy]

Hello from Yorkshire,I had an epi dog for years and now one of my present dogs has a sensitive digestion , prone to colitis bleeding . After trial and error with commercial foods, I now use raw/home cook for both of them . His guts are perfect again.

There are plenty guides online with the proportions without having to spend a lot .Obviously you’d need to be careful with sweet potato with the diabetes, but with it I I use minced or chopped chicken, frozen cheap fish and beef mince. Then cooked mixed veg from freezer packs. Sometimes eggs . Then add a vitamin and mineral mix. I always use sweet potato because it’s so digestible.
Bone meal quantity is awkward, my dogs both very small, became constipated and I’m being cautious.
As well as Lidl, I get frozen meat from a small shop that stocks frozen packs of minced food for dogs, including chicken with or without bone, , meat, fish and pancreas chunks. This is from Durham Pet Foods . Check their website. Once you get organised into making home food into daily portions for freezing ahead it’s easy.
The libre meter must be a godsend . Winnie us a sweetheart to cope with it all.
I used chemeyes for everything and sometimes ordered from Vet uk. My epi dog hated powdered enzymes and I gave her capsules instead.

[jilbert57]

Paige- your pup is gorgeous!
Are you keeping a diary?
https://epi4dogs.com/epi-log/

Jill

[Winnieph1]

Thank you everyone for your replies. It’s so refreshing to have this support. I’ve been doing research into different dog foods over the weekend and I think the best outcome will be home cooked so we know exactly what’s in it. Thank you for the advice, we have somewhere to start with ingredients - It’ll be understanding portions, and how much she exactly needs. She could do with putting weight on, but I also don’t want to overload her body. We are currently feeding 3 times a day, we tried cutting to twice every 12 hours but she then started to eat grass, which for us a is a bad sign, as she enters downwards spiral of feeling hungry vs feeling sick and then ends up being sick. I’ve been monitoring her levels like a hawk and it’s really interesting to see the spikes. Her current GI food is really going against her insulin. The vet is monitoring her levels too and I’m sure she’ll call me in the morning to discuss her levels over the weekend. I will mention to her about swapping to a home cooked diet as well and I think we’ll probably get another device fitted whilst we are in the testing stage to understand how much insulin she’ll need with the change in food. Fingers crossed home cooked works for her though and the cow pat poops stay away

The EPI diary looks great, this will help us monitor, thanks Jill. The vets did say diabetes can occur in dogs with EPI but usually a lot later on, it’s only been 4 months since she was diagnosed with EPI. I’m glad to hear your success stories of managing them both for 8 years though. Winnie’s only 4, so hopefully we’ve got many years together still

[Olesia711]

regarding food and diabetic blood spikes..... OMG...... you are going to be amazed at how much you learn about food.

I remember years ago i used to chuckle to myself when i was told fresh (free-range) farm eggs are better for you than store bought eggs....... and then Izzy developed Diabetes.... so anytime i want to try a new food with her to see if it agreed or not with her blood sugar..... OMG... i was shocked to discover that store bought eggs made her blood sugar 200 points HIGHER than fresh and free range eggs... i never would have believed this except from repeated blood sugar monitor testings that i did on Izzy.

And there also was a dramatic difference with no fat cottage cheese vs. whole milk cottage cheese.... a real eye-opener!

ANyway... all home cooked kept Izzy's blood sugar perfect... but then she lost too much weight and if i tried to fee her a bigger portion, that too messed up her blood sugar... so the happy medium for us was to feed a combo of home-made (i designed Izzy's diet but my vet reviewed it and approved it first) to control the diabetes and a little bit of kibble (since kibble is really compact) to keep the weight stable.

INterestingly enough sweet potato did not really increase the blood sugar.... it really agreed with her diabetes.... that was another surprise.
Do keep a journal, it will help ... and...this is the site that i used to learn how much of each food item to use to feed Izzy a balanced diet:
https://www.fatsecret.com/

You do not have to join Fat Secret.... just select FOODS,
then in the upper left hand corner.... type in (in the search bar) the food you are interested in and it will give you a break down of the food in serving portions (fat/carbs/protein, etc)