Trialing no Creon.......scared

[Toy_Story_PupBuzz]

Hi Everyone,

It's been a while since I have posted about Buzz but we have been struggling lately and after some help from some lovely people from this group I thought I'd post what has been happening and see what peoples suggestions are.

Quick history, Buzz was diagnosed when he was 2.9 years old. We took him to the vet because he wasn't himself, was limp, couldn't pick himelf up and wouldn't eat. He had a TLI score of 2.4 and his vitamin B12 levels were 124. He had also dropped around 6kgs in what seemed like overnight. He was put on 2 Creon capsules morning and night, along with 1/8 tsp of Tylan powder. They also had him on weekly vitamin B12 injection for the first 6 weeks. After those 6 weeks he went to monthly vitamin B12 injections which I do at home. Everything had been going along smoothly, Buzz was well and we were managing his EPI.

Things started to change in October last year (2018) when his poos started being regularly sloppy and he would throw up bile every so often. Took him to the vet and they said all his vitals were ok and that due to his age maybe his medication needed to be increased. The vet also said that 2 capsules morning and night was a very low dose as most EPI dogs are on 10-15 capsules a day after they had done some new research. So we bumped Buzz up to 5 Creon capsules morning and night, along with 1/4 tsp Tylan powder and started giving them to him 20 minutes before food. Fast forward to 15th February and Buzz started going off his food. You could see he would want it but just wasn't eating. He would just lay down beside his bowl. At this point he was vomiting off and on again but just a yellow mucousy bile. Took him to the vet, all his vitals were fine and he wasn't dehydrated. No bloods were taken, no xrays or ultrasounds were suggested and the vet came to the conclusion that with his history of EPI it was probably pancreatitis and he was having a flare up. So he was give 2 injections for pain management and anti-nausea and we were sent home. For the next 3 days we gave him Cerenia daily to control the nausea and Tramadol for the pain. His Creon was always bumped up to 7 capsules morning and night. All was good, he was eating and then on the 4th day when we stopped that medication he was vomiting again and off his food. I ended up trying him on wet food and he started eating again. Went back to the vet and she said he was probably having another flare up and to try the Cerenia again. No mention of bloods or ultrasound/xray. So we continued this for a bout a week but Buzz just went off his food completely and was starting to vomit more regularly. I took him back to the vet when he vomited 3 times in the space of 1hr and said I wanted bloods taken.

Bloods/tests that are being tested are TLI, Folate/Vitamin B12, Wellness Profile and Faecal Endoparasites, occult blood, culture.

Buzz was put on 1/2 tablet of Maxolon instead of the Cerenia but has been throwing up at least twice a day since the 14th March. His poos have been a bit up and down. Some days he's a grade 2-3 others he's a 6. I have also started a diary again and writing down everything I notice. After being in contact with a couple of members we have made the decision to trial Buzz off the Creon and then reintroduce at a smaller dose. We haven't had any vomiting today which is great but I'm just so worried he's going to go downhill quick.

[Toy_Story_PupBuzz]

Follow up to previous post......

Buzz was doing ok most of the day. He hadn't vomited before I let him outside and was pretty good throughout the day. However around 5:30pm Buzz threw up and when I went to assess what he had thrown up it was actually fully formed food from this morning. Every other time he has thrown up it's either just been a yellow bile or a brown mucousy bile where the food has been broken down. He has also been drinking a lot more water today than usual and his poos have gotten worse throughout the day. He was a grade 3-4 this morning, grade 4-5 this afternoon and a grade 6 by 8pm tonight.

We have gone Creon free today as suggested but I'm worried this is an instant result from not having his Creon

Please help.

[Riley's Mom]

Good morning, I'm so sorry Buzz is having such trouble.
What strength Creon does Buzz get? It will help us know if he is getting the correct amount.
It will be good to know his current B12 levels once you get your bloodwork back, one injection a month may not be enough for him. Every dog responds differently, he may need them more often.
A dog with EPI needs enzymes with every bit of food they get. So the meals without Creon have just gone right through him so to speak. That would explain why his poos have gotten progressively worse. I would as a first step begin the Creon again right away. Please let us know what strength Creon you use as well as how you administer and what you feed etc. This info will help us to begin to help you figure things out.

[Toy_Story_PupBuzz]

Thanks so much Elisabeth. I just realised that most people would have been asleep when I posted this morning as it's currently 11:19pm Monday night.

So Buzz is on the 25,000 creon capsules. I was recommended to stop the creon for 2 days and then reintroduce, to try and get the bulk out of his system, but only at 10,000 for the day.

I am considering trying Cheyemes pancreatic powdered enzymes now that it's being stocked in Australia. Have you heard whether powdered is better than the capsules?

[Jean]

Chemeyes is high strength and its really a trial and error thing, but most people over here that use Chemeyes are well pleased I will ask them to comment

[Toy_Story_PupBuzz]

That's good to know, thanks Jean!! I have actually been in contact with them this evening and they have been super helpful and informative.

[jilbert57]

Hi Danielle. I sent you an email just now.

When Buzz resumes the Creon it needs to be at 10,000 each meal, not 10,000 per day.

It was suggested to open 25,000 capsule, split to 5 piles, and give 2 piles per meal which would be 2- 5000 or total 10,000 per meal.

So has Buzz been Creon free all of Monday?

You have been in touch with Chemeyes about the B12 capsules is that correct? Or just the enzymes?

You are continuing the Tylan through these 2 days?

It would probably be a money saver to go with powdered enzymes.

[Dizzy]

Thanks for the add Jean.

Hi Danielle, thanks for getting in touch regarding our high strength pancreatic powder, we used this one with our GSD Dizzy and it suited her really well. As we know all EPI dogs are different so with anything new it can be a bit of trial and error in the beginning, but once you have got the dose sorted, it's usually pretty easy from there.

Keep us posted on how Buzz gets on when you put him back on his enzymes, fingers crossed it sorts his tummy out.

Suj x

[Miss Maddie Moo]

Hello wow thats a lot of Creon we suggest that the starting dose is 1 creon 10 to 1 cup of food...some dogs do need a larger dose may be 1 25 to 1 cup of food it does depend on the dog and the PH balance in there gut.With Creon its trail and error as to how to administer some do as you are doing and give 20 minutes before food some give with the food.
What food do you use.
I would increase the B12 injections too weekly.
Are you on the correct tylan dose ??
Are you making sure that he isn't eating anything without enzymes ?

[Jean]

thanks for your input Suj

she will support you should you want to try Chemeyes

Good luck

Jean