Confused about enzymes

[Nainbud]

Hello All
It's been a while I have been here. I hope you all and our epi babies our doing great.
My epi baby Buddy has fought a lot of battles in the last 2 years. She was diagnosed with Distemper in 2022 leading to full body paralysis and docs asked me to put her down.. I contested against that and today my miracle buddy is back on her feet and she runs and walks and is almost back to normal . Her back legs are a lot weaker as compared to her front legs but she is getting better and the only thing that healed her was homeopathy meds.
Now my confusion is we use Panlipase for her but recently we have been noticing that the enzymes are pale or Brown colored and they have started affecting her poop. I was planning on getting Diane enzymes from the states but I am confused on how to use as she eats homemade food and the food Is usually kept in the refrigerator as we make a days meal in advance and it's reheated before giving to her. I desperately need help on this. Also I started using wonderlabs b12 recently as opposed to her weekly injections. Did any of you feel the need to give double dose of b12 on the start and then stabilize to one dose everyday?

[Eddiespaghetti]

I am incredibly sorry to hear about the distemper diagnosis. That is tough. I am glad that they recovered well.
With refrigerated food, you have two options. When you reheat it, add the enzymes after. You want to make sure the food is under 30C when you add the enzymes. You can heat it for less time if it comes out to hot. It can probably be a little warmer, but you don't really want to push it. The other option is instead of reheating it add hot water to it, not boiling but hot. This is what I do when I use refrigerated food. You want it as close to 21C (70F) as possible.
With the B12 you can give a double, but it might not help. Any not absorbed with be eliminated with the waste. It kind of depends where their B12 levels are currently at. You mostly need to give it for a while to build up the B12 levels. After a bit, you might be able to give it every other day.

[Olesia711]

HI Naina,

Buddy has certainly been through a lot!!!! And very lucky to have beat Distemper. WOW!

REgarding your questions.... I think Panlipase enzyme product should be fine.... BUT...... since this is a product in INdia, (i tried looking it up and this is what i came up with:
https://www.1mg.com/drugs/panlipase-cap ... nic+Search ) please clarify for me that in the capsule, the contents are little enteric coated pellets????

If yes, then this product is equivalent to CREON. which is enteric coated porcine enzyme pellets.

If it is a powder and the color has changed.... my suggestion is to call the company and ask why the color is different and that your dog is no longer doing as well on them.... I am wondering if maybe they have been exposed to excessive heat which might have diminished the potency of the capsules. IN which case you can always switch to CREON 10 or CREON 12 capsules.

However, What you can try, until you can speak with the company that produces Panlipase.... is to give BUddy 2 capsules..... and see if this helps his stools improve.

If you do decide to switch to the powdered enzymes, Jeremy explained how to give powdered enzymes with homemade food stored in the frig.

Regarding the B12.... once a nice optimal B12 level is reached then we often reduce the amount of frequency the B12 pills are being given.

However.... the only time a higher than recommended dose of B12 is given in the beginning is when that particular's dog's B12 was extremely low.... then they sometimes give a little extra for a short while and then back down to the normal dose... Although i have only heard of this being done just a couple of times... so it is not very common that i know of.

[Nainbud]

Thank you @eddiespagetti. I will definitely think of this as an option if nothing works out.

@olesia thank you so much. It's true buddy has been dealt with a lot but I guess God was kind on her to give her another chance at life and she is my warrior gal.

The panlipase contain enteric coated enzymes. They are Lil balls. The capsules always had white enzymes inside but for a last few weeks we have been seeing them turn pale. I am already writing to the company to have this situation accessed and will probably switch her to creon for a while and see how it works as Panlipase is half the cost as compared to Creon.
As for b12 I think her levels were good earlier but ever since distemper she has had a lot of weakness in her body and we just got her blood samples done but the lab forgot to check her b12 . So I think maybe for a few weeks I will give her double capsule and get it checked again and normalize her dosage.

[Olesia711]

thanks for confirming that the Panlipase is enteric coated little pellets... and because of this then you can switch to CREON.

However..... instead of writing the company, which will take forever..... is there anyway you can call them directly..... and give them the lot # on the bottle of Panlipase that you have.. so that they can help you sooner rather than later.

Also.... if the color changed due to excessive heat or even moisture....... then that would render them not as potent as they need to be.... so in the meantime, if you are willing..... maybe up the dosage and give Buddy 2 capsules and see if that helps or not.

The other thing that might be going on (which i thought of long after i posted my response) is that it is possible that there is nothing really wrong with the Panlipase capsules, but rather that Buddy may have needed a little more than 1+1/2 pills to cover the food she is eating.....because once not enough enzymes are used... over time (and this varies from one dog to the next) out of control SID/SIBO (dysbiosis) builds up and this may be the underlying issue... and the fact that her gut started acting up when you noticed the change in color of the enzymes might all just be coincidence.

I honestly don't know and have not heard of the pellets changing color.... BUT..... i do know that some enzymes powders are cream colored while others can be a light brown color.... and both are perfectly fine..... SO..... maybe the company just changed their raw material source... or not. Just mentioning this as another possibility.

REgarding the B12....a few weeks on double B12 should be perfectly fine

Regarding contacting them ... here is a link to where you can do an online chat:
https://www.1mg.com/contactUs

If you can, please keep us posted and let us know what happens.

[Nainbud]

Thank you so much olesia. I did what you mentioned and I have her switched to creon. We will wait and watch for 3-5 days and see the change and in that meanwhile i have emailed the company and will call them tom and see if it is actually an issue or like you said a coincidence. As for b12 I think once she settles on the creon I will double the dosage for this and see the results. You have been so kind and so helpful throughout our journey. I also have one more question regarding dental health. Can epi dogs have their teeth brushed or is it preferred to give them something like nylabones for help with tartar. Buddy doesn't have a lot but her last 4 teeth have a Lil yellow buildup and I want to clean that immediately so as to not have dental issues.

[Olesia711]

it is perfectly fine for an EPI dog to have their teeth cleaned with a brush, professionally via the dentist or with a nyla bone. The only thing i personally do not like are those "greenies" to clean teeth.... have heard too many stories of them breaking off ...

I used to give my dog Izzy real (stripped down) beef bones.... but then again.... she never chewed so hard so as to break the bones. So for us, this was a safe way for my dog to keep her teeth clean. As a matter of fact.... some of those bone were so thick and solid... i STILL have a bunch of them 19 year later!!!!!!!!

[Nainbud]

Thank you olesia for the suggestions.
You mean the chew toys nylabone and as for beef marrow bones can she eat them as an EPI dog??

[Olesia711]

if the Nyla Bone you would like to give Buddy is something that she cannot break off little pieces and do intestinal or tooth damage to herself.. ... then yes... that is perfectly fine. BUT...again, i personally would avoid any of the dental bones..... too many horror stories of "accidents"

Regarding real BIG beef "soup" bones..... that too depends on the dog.... before considering giving a real bone assess whether the dog is too hard of a "chewer" to where she might crack a piece of the bone off and either break a tooth or swallow a chunk.

If you feel Buddy would be safe with chewing on a real thick big soup bone.... then...... because of the EPI, scrap out the bone marrow, scrap off as much of the meat and fat around the bone as possible and then when first introducing the bone to Buddy, give it to her to chew on (for a short while) near an enzymed meal (within one hour before or after an enzymed meal)

This way she will have enzymes in her system when she gnaws on any residual meat/fat/grizzle that you could not scrap off the bone that is still on the bone.

Over time, all this residual stuff will have been happily removed by BUddy and then Buddy can chew on the bone any time.

This is a great way to keep the teeth clean.... BUT..... you have to be careful that whichever these bones that you give cannot cause damage to the dog based on the individual dog.... and how hard of a chewer they are.