Struggling, help with GSD please

[jilbert57]

Ugg Patsy thats the worst!

Jill

[Patsy]

Hi from Yorkshire
You’ve had some good advice . I’ve looked at comments on Pro-enzorb and they suggest that it can be used at one capsule to 100gm of food. So a lot needed for a GSD. So you could double your dose, no problems.
It is like Lypex in that they are cautious with doseage instructions . Maybe avoiding liability for side effects, since epi dogs have individual requirements.
It is a designer epi product, containing enzymes, Probiotics and the B12 at 1000mg per capsule. To me, that prevents flexibility. You may not want probiotics or extra B12. You just use your own.
If you get a diagnosis needing enzymes, you could find everything you need with Chemeyes.co.uk , the owners are members here. They had their own epi German shepherds. Much cheaper than vet sales. No prescriptions needed.
Hope this helps.

[Kissy1921]

For starters, you want to stay away from plant based enzymes. You will want to look into pork/porcine enzymes. The plant based ones will be for the dogs with pork intolerance. If need be you can use the plant ones but will have to give more as they are usually not as strong as the pork ones.
I also went the route of giving enzymes before the cTLI test. If they are having a positive reaction to the enzymes, it does narrow down the possibilities. Since this has been going on for months I doubt it is pancreatitis.

Hi Eddie,
Thanks for your reply.
This hasn't been going on for months, my research said to try enzymes so I went to amazon and bought the first ones I found, the plant ones and they have kept her stable since March 2023. I then researched further and realised pork enzymes are better so I bought some and kept in the cupboard. As Molly was stable with nice firm poos I didn't want to break what was already fixed.
I only decided to change to the porcine ones last week when she had a relapse with unformed soft poos in the middle of the night but this didnt help and this is when the vomiting started.
We are currently trying Slippery Elm twice a day as per advice on here and hope that will help.
Taking her to a vets isnt possible, she wees, poos and vomits the minute we get to the door, shakes and tries to bite any vet that comes near her. She is muzzle trained but that doesnt help her at all, even with sedatives the vets have given us to use first don't work with her.

Thanks for your advice thought, we have taken it onboard, for now she is back on the plant enzymes as they do not make her vomit........ fingers crossed the SE works

[Kissy1921]

Hi from Yorkshire
You’ve had some good advice . I’ve looked at comments on Pro-enzorb and they suggest that it can be used at one capsule to 100gm of food. So a lot needed for a GSD. So you could double your dose, no problems.
It is like Lypex in that they are cautious with doseage instructions . Maybe avoiding liability for side effects, since epi dogs have individual requirements.
It is a designer epi product, containing enzymes, Probiotics and the B12 at 1000mg per capsule. To me, that prevents flexibility. You may not want probiotics or extra B12. You just use your own.
If you get a diagnosis needing enzymes, you could find everything you need with Chemeyes.co.uk , the owners are members here. They had their own epi German shepherds. Much cheaper than vet sales. No prescriptions needed.
Hope this helps.

Thanks Patsy,
We used to be in Yorkshire, now in County Durham though, our vet is the Yorkshire Vet, Julian , wonderful chap!

I have been on the Chemeyes website and ordered some of their enzymes, we already use their B12 with Intrinsic factor in them which work well for Molly.
It could well be that the Pro-Enzorb just don't suit her as they have other additives in them and as you say prevent flexibility.
For now we are trying Slippery Elm twice a day and have gone back to the old plant enzymes which seems to have stopped the vomiting ..... poos still slightly soft but no longer liquid and only one or two a day as opposed to the several she was having.

Take care and thank you for your help x

[Kissy1921]

I did find this company you could call and ask about it.
https://bbpetsupplies.com/product/canin ... -test-kit/

Thanks Jill, have ordered.

[Kissy1921]

Well we started the SE this morning, 1pm we had a horrible poo lol ............... off to vets at 6pm ............ dreading this cos it always makes her tummy worse.
[img]https://kissy1921.imgbb.com//img]

[jilbert57]

Please let us know what the vet says.

Jill

[Olesia711]

glad you are taking Molly to the vet.... to me this sounds like EPI in the background with raging SID (small intestinal dysbiosis)... HOWEVER... as Jill mentioned..... EPI symptoms can mimic so many other health conditions, that we can be fooled into thinking it is EPI when it is something else, so best to have the vet check out what is going on now... but.... if you can, maybe find a different vet that will draw blood for a proper EPI test called the TLI test.

Also.... when at the vet.... if they cannot positively identify another cause, ask the vet for Tylosin Tartrate (Tylan) soluble powder antibiotic.... DO NOT let any vet prescribe Metronidazole (Flagyl) ... for any gastrointestinal condition. because as i mentioned above, this really sound like out of control SID/SIBO (dysbiosis) that (if EPI) has been brewing for a LONG time and this is why you are seeing intermittent sloppy poos... even when on enzymes.

I too agree with PAtsy, it is very possible that it is one of the other ingredients in the Pro-Enzorb that is not agreeing with her tummy. Probiotics, especially when give full strength all at once, as they are when pre mixed in a product. often initially give diarrhea. This is why we strongly recommend trying probiotics separately and then try at a less than half of the recommended dose and work your way up to a full dose over the course of a week or two. Also, bear in mind that ALL current probiotics are designed as "one-size-fits-all".... when that is why they often don't work since every dog has it's own unique gut flora composition with various bacterium strains (or lack there of) so some times these probiotics do nothing ... unless you happen upon one that compliments your dog's individual gut flora........

I highly recommend trying Chemeyes pancreatic enzymes and am glad you are already using their B12 product too.
Regarding the SLippery Elm.... they won't hurt a dog, but if the dog has runny stools afterwards.... it is usually because of one of two things:
1. the dog has a sensitivity to Elm
2. the dose was too much
(Slippery ELm has prebiotic properties and although prebiotics are proven to work (not like probiotics) if you give too much, that will trigger loose stools... so with SLippery Elm, sometimes less is better)

Please do keep us posted with what the vet says.......

[Kissy1921]

Thanks Olesia.
I only gave her half a dose of the SE mixed with warm water in her breakfast as Jill suggested.
Her stools were half solid and half curry like this morning but she has had 3 piles now and only had 300grams for her breakfast.
In herself she is fine....just hungry!
Will try my best to get vet to give us some Tylan .....going in armed with poo photos, poo samples and a diary of her endless pooing.
Will update afterwards.

[Patsy]

I hope your appointment with Julian went ok. He seems to be caring and open minded . As an agricultural vet he will be familiar with the antibiotic Tylan and might allow you to sign a disclaimer to use it. Give this website to swot up on . Many many vets have no experience of it.
Another thought re tests; my fiesty terrier goes into hysteria mode at the vets, and I have to hold him while said vet stabs him in the bum with a pre- med sedative before anything else.
Maybe there is a tablet they can give yours if she needs her stomach felt over or bloods drawn . We recommend the full blood count to see if there is any other issue, a separate B12 and the epi ctli. If she had it before travelling to the vet she would be dopey or asleep when you get there. 12hourstarving for that last one if scheno shows an indecisive result