Enzyme dose not working? What should I try next?

[Olesia711]

UGH... i just responded and it disappeared

Okay.... interestingly, Leo appears to be one of those cases that has loose stools after getting B12. This can happen, it is simply the body adjusting to the B12, although we don't see this very often. BUt it is nothing to worry about. And please do continue with the B12. He needs it.

Regarding everything you posted.... to me this sounds like uncontrolled dysbiosis that you are now getting under control... slowly but surely.

Let us know how going with the tsp pumpkin works out.

ALSO...... if he was on both: - Wholistic Pet Organics Canine Complete and AnimalBiome Dog Probiotics - S. boulardii + FOS Probiotic... that is too much. Give the Proviable a few weeks to see if it agrees better with him... if not... then i would go back to ONLY using the Animal Biome.... and the reason why is because S. boulardii seems to make a positive difference with many of our dogs. Of course, there are no guarantees, but overall, boulardii seems to do a good job.... if the Animal biome doesn't help after two weeks if tried after two weeks on Proviable doesn't work... then the next pre+probiotic i would try would be Visbiome....

Unfortunately with probiotics.... it's like throwing a bunch of stuff at the wall and hoping something will stick... and sometimes none of it works......... but the only way to find out is to try things one at a time.

The ONLY other thing i can think of, and since you live on the west coast, this should be reasonable for you is to try raw green tripe. In which case you would stop ALL the other pre + probiotics and try this.... but start with very little. Many a dog has been turned around with this when all else has failed, but not every dog will eat this nor does it work on every dog. It was actually too much for mine and gave her loose stools... but years ago, one of the researchers told me that in the UK, before they had all the meds they do today, this is what they fed very sick dogs with dysbiosis, loose stools, kidney/liver disease and it was one of the few things that really worked most of the time. However DO NOT buy raw green trip packaged or commercial in a can, etc... it is NOT the same.... you would only want to use the real raw green tripe and it stinks something awful. I wore nitrate disposable gloves when handling it and after i took the gloves off... my hands still stunk!
this is where you can buy it:
https://www.greentripe.com/
https://www.greentripe.com/pages/green-tripe-analysis

[lylzzf3841]

UGH... i just responded and it disappeared

Yep it happened to me once as well. Now I just do a control+c before I hit any button

Leo has stopped using all supplements since the ER visit and are only now on Proviable DC and Slippery Elm now. He's been on Proviable for 3 weeks now, but I really don't know if it's helping at all...

I got really interested in Visbiome after reading lots of post in the website and I actually purchased one box (in packet). I love the fact that it's clinical proven to help with IBD. But yes, I remember, only one change at a time. So it's still sitting in my fridge. I'm going to give Tylan a bit more time with pumpkin puree for now. And if his stool is still not a perfect score 2, I'm going to stop Proviable and give a half packet of Visbiome to start with

[Olesia711]

sounds like a good plan.... except... do not stop the Tylan... give it for 45 days.... cuz it DOES sound like it is starting to help.
and then at the end of 45 days... do not stop completely... but slowly withdraw... contact me at this point and i will walk you thru.

Regarding the Proviable... if you have not seen a noticeable difference within 3 weeks... i definitely would try the Visbiome, especially since you have it.... BUT.... start with less than 1/2 the recommended dose and slowly work your way up to giving Leo a full dose of Visbiome over the course of a week or two..

Fingers crossed that this helps!

[lylzzf3841]

Oh Yes! Definitively not stopping Tylan - especially after all those back and forth for being able to get the correct dose 1/4 tsp every 12 hours for 45 days for sure!

[lylzzf3841]

Does anyone notice the food texture change after the ‘incubation’ process? Leo is mostly on homemade wet food, and sometimes after mixing the enzyme and letting it sit for 20 mins, the wet food become more of a puree/liquid… it’s almost like the enzyme has already started digesting those

Is it normal or am I doing something wrong?

[Olesia711]

yes the enzymes will start activating a little bit when added to moist food...., but to fully work, it needs to be in the digestive system.

SO no... you are not doing anything wrong.............

[lylzzf3841]

So another update - yesterday I wasn't able to try with pumpkins puree (I thought I always had canned pumpkins but nope..), so instead I added a bit more enzyme to each of his meal, so now it's basically 1 3/4 tsp enzyme per 2 cups of wet food.

And nope, things didn't go well this morning. The first half of this poop went from score 3 to score 4, and the last piece remains at score 5, and still straining afterwards, nothing came out this time... It feels like something was irritating his colon. I did notice the volume reduced a bit, so I guess that's what the increased enzyme did.

I'm wondering if this means too much lipase ... his already on a very low fat diet - this was the only diet agrees with him before any treatment, and I'm hesitant to change that... I also feel he's not getting any fiber now from anywhere. He used to have pumpkins, carrots, green beans and broccolis in his food, and daily fruit snack of apple, berries etc. Now because of EPI we stopped all that. So I guess it's a good point to try adding a little bit of pumpkin puree to his meal.

One a side note, is there any recommendation for multivitamins? I'm worried about vitamin/mineral deficiencies

[Olesia711]

He can still have what he used to get!

"He used to have pumpkins, carrots, green beans and broccolis in his food, and daily fruit snack of apple, berries etc."


When we say watch the fiber content.... we mean with commercial food, mostly kibble..... when it comes to fresh veggies and fruit... they have so much water content that it usually does not equate to too much fiber content. So please feel free to add these back into his diet.

With regards to a vitamin, there are many out there but one of my personal favorites that i used in the past was VetriScience dog vitamins.

[lylzzf3841]

Oh I see. I think I was being way too careful with the fiber... but before he's more stabilized with the current protocol, I'm going to hold off his fruit snacks. I also heard that fruits are bad for SID, but then there's also info saying SID benefits from fresh veggies and fruits.....

So for the past 2 days, I switched from Proviable DC to Visbiome, but only using 1/2 packets per day, which is 1/4 of the recommended dose based on his weight. His stool is still soft score 4, but there was no more straining or score 5 at the end, and I did notice that the color seemed to be improved a bit - it's overall a more consistent brown color. I think it's Tylan doing its job and SID is more under control now. I'm going to increase the Visbiome to 1 packet today to see how that looks.

I'm looking at the Enzyme Diane 6x I got, the label says the lipase is 93,800 USP. Is it a on the high end of a 6x enzyme? Should I try to reduce the enzyme a bit (currently 1 1/2 tsp per 2 cups of wet food, but a very low fat wet food)

[Eddiespaghetti]

The way enzymes are labeled differ by company. Some base it on a minimum while others base it on the expiry date. You will probably be able to cut back on the enzymes, but I would wait until they are stable. You will want to know what definitely works in case the experiments go bad.