Possible EPI - please help

[Winnieph1]

Hello - I don’t know where else to turn to so I’m hoping someone can help me please. I’ve been to my vets but unfortunately they haven’t been of much help, I am booked in for a second opinion at a different vet on Monday and I want to make sure I have all the right questions or knowledge to ensure we get some answers and help. I suspect EPI as she has all the symptoms.

Winnie is an almost 4 year old mini cockapoo who once weighed 20lbs and was very healthy and happy. Winnie was always a fussy eater and one day she randomly changed and wanted to eat everything and anything, it was literally overnight. After this change we started to notice her stools becoming yellow and loose with the occasional diarrhoea- we spoke to our vet about our concern and he said it was probably due to the new behaviour of eating more and sometimes it happens.

Roll on a couple of months later, we notice weight loss, alongside the loose yellow stools - the vets say it must be an allergy, change her to an hypoallergenic food. Which we did.

2 months later - Winnie has lost even more weight, she’s now 13.5lb and the diet didn’t change or help with anything, and she starts leaking oily substances from her bottom. We took her back to the vet who did blood and stool tests, I will post the results, he said all looks fine expect she has high folate but this doesn’t concern him. He put her on metrocare and said let’s see her in 3 weeks - again no change so we went back, and the he said let’s try them for another 3 weeks and she has just finished this course, again they did nothing to help her.

She went to stay with a dog boarder whilst we went on holiday 2 weeks ago, she’s really into her natural remedies, and she said she’ll try and change her diet to see if she can help firm her poops up at all. She fed her raw, added slippery elm and gave her kiefer, a yoghurt with no lactose that is a good probiotic. Amazingly her poos are firmer, still not where they should be but they can be picked up, however now they are no longer runny you can clearly see the oil substance that also comes out. Winnie’s bottom is also still leaking an oil substance and she still isn’t gaining weight although we are feeding her almost double the amount of food and have been for the past few months. Another behaviour that she has started doing is eating her poop, the vet said this was common in dogs but personally I think it’s linked to her not digesting enough nutrients.

I have a second vet looking at her next week, but I just want to help her get better. It’s so sad seeing her get so slim and skinny. Any advice or thoughts recommended. Thank you, P & Winnie

[Tuckaboo Pam]

Awww, Paige, if I were you I would fast her from all but water, for twelve hours prior to her appointment, and insist on a fasting tLi. It's not cheap, but boy it sounds like EPI. You also want her B12 tested, unless that was included in the massive number of tests they already ran. The vet may give you enzymes, or sell you enzymes, and they will be expensive. There are other options available, so you won't have to mortgage your house to take care of your baby. My vet tried numerous treatments, too, and like you, I ended up figuring it out quite by accident.

SO, you have come to the exact right place for the support you will need if you get a positive result. Tucker was diagnosed four years ago, and without this awesome group, backed by tons of research, it would have been much harder & way more expensive to get my boy back on track. Take Care---Pam & Tucker

[Tuckaboo Pam]

Cobalamin, B12, is less than 600, so you will need to supplement. I see you're in the UK. Fortunately, Jean is on staff, and she is one of the best sources of info, and she is nurturing of new members.

[jilbert57]

Hi Paige, so glad you found us!
I agree with Pam about the tLi test if you can please have it run. It will help knowing her diagnosis in order to proceed.

Jill

[Winnieph1]

Awww, Paige, if I were you I would fast her from all but water, for twelve hours prior to her appointment, and insist on a fasting tLi. It's not cheap, but boy it sounds like EPI. You also want her B12 tested, unless that was included in the massive number of tests they already ran. The vet may give you enzymes, or sell you enzymes, and they will be expensive. There are other options available, so you won't have to mortgage your house to take care of your baby. My vet tried numerous treatments, too, and like you, I ended up figuring it out quite by accident.

SO, you have come to the exact right place for the support you will need if you get a positive result. Tucker was diagnosed four years ago, and without this awesome group, backed by tons of research, it would have been much harder & way more expensive to get my boy back on track. Take Care---Pam & Tucker

Thank you Pam, I will look to do that for Monday and request that test from the vet, as that is one they haven’t done. When it comes to cost, I’d do anything to make her better, thankfully our insurance covers it.

Whenever I was researching her symptoms, this website and forum kept coming up and it’s so helpful, especially reading all the first hand experience everyone has. Whilst I don’t wish any dog to get sick, it’s great to know that Winnie isn’t alone here, the vet made me feel like I was over reacting with my worries.

Yes her cobalamin b12 came back as 435, and looking at their report they suggest this is within a normal range, they are viewing normal as anything = or greater than 275. I’m not sure if that is correct though. Then her folate alongside this is >24 which they have noted as high. From my reading and understanding, the two seem to go hand in hand. It’s like learning a new language trying to understand this information.

[jilbert57]

If you pup tests positive for Epi then the B12 needs to be kept in the mid to high range, 600 or greater. This can be achieved by oral supplementation daily or shots on some type of schedule.. I might recommend the oral asit is shown to work as well as shots.

https://epi4dogs.com/b12-in-brief-2/

Jill

[Winnieph1]

If you pup tests positive for Epi then the B12 needs to be kept in the mid to high range, 600 or greater. This can be achieved by oral supplementation daily or shots on some type of schedule.. I might recommend the oral asit is shown to work as well as shots.

https://epi4dogs.com/b12-in-brief-2/

Jill

Thank you Jill, that is really useful to know and keep in mind. I’ll keep you posted on the results and let you know if I have any questions.

[Eddiespaghetti]

If it was allergies, the RBC and WBC would be switched. Usually allergies cause higher white blood cell count. As, people have suggested, get a cTLI test done after having Winnie fast for 12 hours.

[Olesia711]

Hi Paige,

Yes, this sure sounds like it could be EPI.... and that high folate score.... usually indicates dysbiosis... but if this is EPI, then dysbiosis (SID/SIBO) automatically accompanies EPI.

I too would like to encourage you to have blood drawn for a TLI test to know once and for all if this is EPI.
WHen have blood drawn for the TLI test... you need to food fast for approx 12 to 15 hrs prior to the test... this is why we suggest having the blood drawn in the morning....

Hope this helps and please do keep us posted.

If this is EPI.... there are EPI resources that we can connect you with in the UK

[Barb]

Hi Paige,

I will also jump on the c tli test bandwagon and recommend the test for Epi. There are many signs pointing in that direction, but you want to make sure and get a correct diagnosis. If it is EPI, you will have plenty of support here to help you proceed.

Please let us know the results.

Barb