Epi4Dogs

Our GSD bitch is 13 months old and recently diagnosed with EPI. She is on LYPEX capsules which we sprinkle onto her food, 1 capsule in each feed, we are currently feeding her twice a day. We feed her Millie’s Wolfheart which she has had since weaning, as we left her on the feed the breeder used. She has lost 5+ kg and is currently only 19kg, so thin it breaks me to see her like this. We had good results last week with her poo being consistently solid so I have tried to increase the amount of food she is getting as she is starving all the time, but we have had 1 day of good results and now back to soft stools. I’m am uncertain how to get her weight up without irritating her stomach. Can anyone recommend a food to try? I have thought about changing to raw diet but it seems more complicated that I first thought. I have bought her B12 capsules which I have just started this week, sprinkled into her food. Would this have brought about the return of loose stools? We are based in the UK, and not sure what else to do, this is completely new to me.
Thanks Karen

Hi Karen, I am in the US. If Millies Wolfheart has grains that could be part of the problem. A grainfree diet with no peas, lentils or legumes is best. I don't know the dose of Lypex per measurement of food but if you increased the amount maybe the amount of Lypex needs increasing. Someone from UK will check in who can help.
Jill

Hi Karen,

So sorry you are having difficulty getting your dog stable.

The first thing to look at would be the amount of Lypex you are giving... it may not be enough.... often times, much ore is needed then what is recommended on the packaging. I have contacted Jean, our Forum Director who also resides in the UK ... hopefully she will reach out to you soon to help you with the Lypex dosing.

How much food are you feeding your dog when you give 1 Lypex capsule?

Net... to put on more weight in the beginning, what we suggest is feeding 150% of what the dog would normally require.... HOWEVER... many of these dogs when given more food, the get looser stools ... so... what we suggest next is to feed smaller portions of food BUT feed more often in one day..... try 3 or 4 smaller meals that over the course of a day will equal 150% of their required feeding.

The B12 should help over all, but it typically does NOT give loose stools...

What might be happening is that now that she has started the enzymes..... the ever present SID (small intestinal dybiosis) has come to the forefront.....we see this happen often... they now know that ALL dogs with EPI have SID. Our job is to control it the best we can. to do this you

1. first try a prebiotic... (here in the USA we use SLippery ELm powder...) https://epi4dogs.com/slippery-elm/
2. If you do not see any improvement from a prebiotic within a few days.... then talk to your vet abut trying a pre+probiotic... (we currently are suggesting Proviable or Visbiome or ask your vet what they recommend... HOWEVER... anytime you start with a new probiotic, ALWAYS start with less than 1/2 the dose and work your way up to a full dose over the course of a week
3. If the above doesn't show any improvement after a week or two.... THEN talk to your vet about a course of Tylan antibiotic https://epi4dogs.com/antibiotics/

In the meantime, you might want to read this mini snapshot of what and how to handle EPI:

Good morning from Liverpool

which part of Scotland are you, one of my favourite places

which variety of Millies Wolfheart are you giving and how much per feed

1 Lypex for a GSD is not enough, I used it for 2 years until it became cost prohibitive Kara wqas 39 pounds at her lowest and she wa at that time 14 months old so I very much empathise

we changed to grain free food foe her and my suggestion is to feed her several times a day if that fits into your life and feed 50% over and above the recommended amount for the weight she SHOULD be we fed 5 times daily at the start using 5 Lypex per meal, she was never able to get below 3 Lypex per meal

I am at the end of the phone if you want to talk

0151 726 1468

please feel free

Jean

Hello, and welcome .
I used Millie’s Wolfheart and appreciated the large variety of recipes and detailed ingredients. They are happy to discuss their food with you on the phone.
I too, used Lypex in the early days. The instructions are totally misleading,. For a large springer spaniel I needed to give two per meal. They are good but so expensive. When she stabilises and gains weight, we can suggest alternative enzyme brands. A GSD would need a minimum of 3 per meal.
I was in desperation at first, but my first vet who did his own research, was great. Others not so.
I hope the increase in dosage helps quickly

Thank you everyone for your replies, it’s such a minefield. We have been back to our vet as there has been yet another drop in her weight! I’m so worried we loose her! The vet has has agreed that we need to increase her LYPEX capsules and to try her on Royal Canine gastrointestinal. Though there seems to be multiple options of that as well. My husband is the person who has been in discussion with the vet due to my work schedule, but I will ring her next week and ask her about prebiotic etc. I do feel that the young vet is completely inexperienced in dealing with this (as are we), but very willing to do what she can. I’m fortunate that we had taken out medical insurance for our pup so a lot of this is being covered by that. Thank you for all the advice it is reassuring when you see that other dogs have gained weight and led a healthier life once the right treatment plan is in place.

As you have realised, it’s difficult to be confident in an inexperienced vet, but if they discuss this with their senior partners, research epi and read this forum, they should follow the right pathway.
Apart from lypex, have you been given a B12 injection plan? This helps enormously and also assists digestion because the dosage so run down generally. My dog had a personality change overnight. Injections work faster than pills, which lose efficiency in the gut, but are great for maintaining levels once up.
Have she got rumbling tum and stinky wind? Most dogs are given a course of antibiotics . After that they can have the good bacteria boosted back with pre/probiotics.
Some dogs can’t tolerate chicken, but I remember that Millies is good on game and fish based food. My personal view is that prescription gastro food is not necessarily good for our epi dogs. Some of them list rice, barley and chicken high on the ingredients. Which variety have you been given? Vets will only recommend prescription foods for insurance reasons.

Pet insurance is so important it cost our insurers a LOT of money, at one point it was £5000.00 per year it got less when we changed to a powdered enzyme

how many did the vet agree to increase to ?

and I am with Patsy on this we could never get below 3 per meal and in the beginning it was 5 per meal 5 times a day, she would have eaten wood at that time and did !

I thought we would lose Kara so I understand , my vet wasnt having it, but we took no pictures of her at that time

as to b12 ask your vet to give 6 weekly injections of generic b12 it will give a good grounding , b12 (cobalamin) is essential to and EPI dog

https://www.petmd.com/dog/conditions/di ... ufficiency

one of my favourite web sites so easy to follow

keep a log/diary for everything you do

my advice is to start her on 3 Lypex per meal and to make the microsheres stick add a small amount of live yogurt mixed in

keep it simple is the best thing and dont give up, its very manageable

Millies is a very good food but you need to be concerned about grains, chicken and rice, most do not do well on any of it

there are pelenty of decent types in Pets at Home

we had Kara on James Welbeloved grain free lamb and veg for 7 years , and she thrived going from 39 pounds to 90 and stabilised at that till we lost her in 2019

please feel free to give me a ring or ask your husband to a friendly voice often helps

You are in great hands with Jean snd Patsy. Also you might want to keep a daily journal of food/meds in and output for reference.

https://epi4dogs.com/epi-log/

Jill

Thank you Jean, Patsy and co for responding. So the vet didn’t give a specific number of LYPEX capsules to give but did say that we couldn’t overdose her on them so that was a relief. We have gone from 1 to 2 capsules per meal and now adding in an extra meal plus graduallly increasing the amount in her bowl. And the good news is that her stool is looking more normal.
Millie’s did answer my e-mail to them and gave us some suggestions, it was the vet who recommended the royal canine. I have been happy with Millie’s which she has been on since a pup. They don’t use chicken or eggs in their meals and it is grain free, and before this she was in excellent condition. I may try their recommendations but just want her to put some weight back on.
We think she was looking as though she was coming into season as there had been some spotting but so far it hasn’t come to anything, the vet thinks the weight loss is probably affecting this too, much in the same way it would with us humans. This would be her second season and I hoped to get her spayed after that but feel her wee body is having to cope with enough at the minute.
Can any of you advise me if there were issues with your GSD bitch and how it affected their cycle. We won’t be having any pups from her so will spay her when she has improved.
To be honest the vet hasn’t said anything about B12 injections, I just bought her capsules after reading about them on this forum, but I will ask her.
Thank you all so much for your input so far. I’ve had a GSD with epilepsy in the past but epi is completely new to me.
Karen