Cavalier King Charles spaniel with EPI

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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jilbert57
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Posts: 2089
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Cavalier King Charles spaniel with EPI

Post by jilbert57 » 01 Apr 2019, 09:38

Margaret, just wanted to welcome you and your pup! Once you get a routine down it will get easier.
Some folks use chipped ice as a treat in the beginning.
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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toblerone617
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Location: newton
Country: United States
State: Massachusetts
Pet name: gibbs

Re: Cavalier King Charles spaniel with EPI

Post by toblerone617 » 06 Apr 2019, 22:24

Hi everyone,

Update on Gibbs.

1. we are now religious in allowing 20 to 30 minutes of enzyme action before giving Gibbs food. we are also very careful to make sure all of the food comes in contact with enzyme (very thorough mixing).

2. we are giving NO treats at this point. they were not treated with the enzyme before and may have been a major cause of return of problems.

3. talked to vet about B12. he is now taking a B12 pill.

4. we are trying to feed an additional 50% food. he has gained weight but not much.

result:
he does seem better. during the day he might have one of those strange yellow/orange productions. but doesn't happen everyday.

question:
is it common for the quantity of poop to still stay pretty high even after enzyme treatment starts. it's not as much as it was but it is more than he was producing pre-symptoms of EPI.

thanks again for everyone's help. I find it reassuring that I can go to a group like this for shared experiences, possible solutions, and everything else related to EPI.

thanks.

Margaret
My name is Margaret and I live Newton, MA. I have two dogs: Gibbs (age 9 1/2) is the one with EPI. The other one is Sasha (13 1/2). Both are cavalier king charles spaniels.

Gibbs was diagnosed in February 2019 after suffering from a rapid weight loss (16 .5 lbs to 13.5 lbs.) in about 6 weeks. He had all the hallmarks of EPI and was diagnosed with it quickly. He is on Viokase-V, 1 tsp/2x day. He gets about 1 cup of food (grain free kibble mixed with green beans, yoghurt and canned pumpkin) 2x a day.

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jilbert57
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Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Cavalier King Charles spaniel with EPI

Post by jilbert57 » 06 Apr 2019, 22:38

Thank you for the update. Are the poops solid ?
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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toblerone617
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Posts: 7
Location: newton
Country: United States
State: Massachusetts
Pet name: gibbs

Re: Cavalier King Charles spaniel with EPI

Post by toblerone617 » 06 Apr 2019, 22:51

all this fun talk about poops....they are solid but not particularly firm. the kind that you think is going to be easy to pick up...but turns out not to be.

Margaret
My name is Margaret and I live Newton, MA. I have two dogs: Gibbs (age 9 1/2) is the one with EPI. The other one is Sasha (13 1/2). Both are cavalier king charles spaniels.

Gibbs was diagnosed in February 2019 after suffering from a rapid weight loss (16 .5 lbs to 13.5 lbs.) in about 6 weeks. He had all the hallmarks of EPI and was diagnosed with it quickly. He is on Viokase-V, 1 tsp/2x day. He gets about 1 cup of food (grain free kibble mixed with green beans, yoghurt and canned pumpkin) 2x a day.

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jilbert57
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Posts: 2089
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Cavalier King Charles spaniel with EPI

Post by jilbert57 » 06 Apr 2019, 23:18

Margaret, it sounds to me like either the pea protein or peas in the kibble, as mentioned by Olesia, or SID might still be present. The usual course of antibiotics is 45 days for SID. You said your vet had him on a short course of Metro. Maybe it was not long enough time? Maybe you could request Tylan, it is gentler on the system long term.
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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Jean
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Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: Cavalier King Charles spaniel with EPI

Post by Jean » 07 Apr 2019, 04:19

hi there

well it seems like things are going in the right direction, but it does sound like SID is rearing its ugly head so, Tylan is the answer and the one we all turn to, twice a day 12 ish hours apart and weight of dog dosed

JEAN
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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toblerone617
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Posts: 7
Location: newton
Country: United States
State: Massachusetts
Pet name: gibbs

Re: Cavalier King Charles spaniel with EPI

Post by toblerone617 » 07 Apr 2019, 11:10

thanks everyone for your comments.

if this doesn't stop In the next day or so we'll head back to vets for antibiotic.

Margaret
My name is Margaret and I live Newton, MA. I have two dogs: Gibbs (age 9 1/2) is the one with EPI. The other one is Sasha (13 1/2). Both are cavalier king charles spaniels.

Gibbs was diagnosed in February 2019 after suffering from a rapid weight loss (16 .5 lbs to 13.5 lbs.) in about 6 weeks. He had all the hallmarks of EPI and was diagnosed with it quickly. He is on Viokase-V, 1 tsp/2x day. He gets about 1 cup of food (grain free kibble mixed with green beans, yoghurt and canned pumpkin) 2x a day.

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Madelon
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Re: Cavalier King Charles spaniel with EPI

Post by Madelon » 07 Apr 2019, 17:01

Hi there - just popping in to give my suggestion and confuse you more (hopefully not). If you do not want to change the food, then you could either try Slippery Elm Bark Powder (https://epi4dogs.com/slippery-elm/) and see if the gut flora restores itself OR do the 45 day course of Tylan (be sure to wean slowly off Tylan - don't quit cold turkey). If you still are not seeing optimal results, then it's probably time to look at changing the food. Sometimes reducing the fiber even as little as 1/2% can make a big difference and sometimes it's just the particular ingredients that don't agree with the dog.

What B12 pill are you giving?
Madelon, owned by DOC. DOC dx EPI 5/2015 = TLI < .4, B12 406; Folate >24. DOC taught me so much and together we battled and overcame EPI, food sensitivies, environmental allergies but we lost the cancer battle. DOC was dx with hemangiosarcoma 5/2022 and crossed the rainbow bridge July 24, 2022. He is and always will be the love of my life, my soulmate, my heart dog.

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toblerone617
Member
Posts: 7
Location: newton
Country: United States
State: Massachusetts
Pet name: gibbs

Re: Cavalier King Charles spaniel with EPI

Post by toblerone617 » 03 Dec 2019, 13:24

Hi,

I'm appending this post to my original one. Just wanted to pass along an update on Gibbs. He's doing well. We finally worked out a routine that has him pretty stable. He's gained back two to three of the pounds he lost. He's pretty reliably at around 15 1/2 pounds now.

We mix 2/3 cup kibble (barking at the moon), some yoghurt, pumpkin and green beans and two level teaspoon of Viokase and one Cobalequin (vitamin B, 250mg) in the morning. We let it sit for 30 minutes or so and then feed him 1/2 of it. The remaining 1/2 goes into refrigerator. In the late afternoon we take out the remaining mixture, let it sit out for at least 30 minutes and then feed him. He does get a few treats during the day but they are just five or six cheerios spread out over the day.

We were having a hard time with the second feeding and preparing it earlier, refrigerating and then warming to room temperature seems to have made late afternoons less hectic.

indiscretions still occur and we can always tell. But in general these are few.

The help and information I received from this forum was incredibly helpful. I have passed the information on EPI4Dogs to several people.

Thanks again for all the help. I wish for others that you find a routine/diet/drug regime which helps you and your dog.

Margaret
My name is Margaret and I live Newton, MA. I have two dogs: Gibbs (age 9 1/2) is the one with EPI. The other one is Sasha (13 1/2). Both are cavalier king charles spaniels.

Gibbs was diagnosed in February 2019 after suffering from a rapid weight loss (16 .5 lbs to 13.5 lbs.) in about 6 weeks. He had all the hallmarks of EPI and was diagnosed with it quickly. He is on Viokase-V, 1 tsp/2x day. He gets about 1 cup of food (grain free kibble mixed with green beans, yoghurt and canned pumpkin) 2x a day.

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Jean
Forum Director
Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: Cavalier King Charles spaniel with EPI

Post by Jean » 03 Dec 2019, 13:31

Hello Margaret and Gibbs

Thank you so much for rhe Pupdate

Its so good you have a routine that works, and that will help others

I am so grateful on behalf of EPI4DOGS, that you have chosen to pass our website to others

We need to fly the flag

Keep in touch


Jean
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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