Trixie's new digestive upsets

[jilbert57]

This is just a thought. I had one jack who had gall bladder issues and had attacks like that. Reluctant to move much for 10 hours or so then be fine. He had a sluggish gall bladder that needed to be thinned. One of our current jacks just went through 3 months of off and on like that so had an abdominal ultrasound to check pancreas, gall bladder, etc. He had a benign tumor on his spleen, both of which were removed and now he acts like a puppy.
Just another thought for if he keeps having bouts.

Jill

[Olesia711]

Hi Trixie's mom,

SO sorry i missed all your posts back mid-Oct.... i was on vacation... so i am just now catching up.
Regarding EPI & Pancreatitis together.... my understanding from the an EPI researcher and a Pancreatitis researcher is that :
1. chronic pancreatitis can evolve into EPI.... and even thou we call it chronic, even one episode of what we notice as a pancreatitis attack can then trigger EPI.
2. End Stage Chronic pancreatitis is EPI.... however, this does not mean that every dog that has chronic pancreatitis will eventually develop EPI. some do, some don't.
3. THere is also a window of time ( a few years) where a dog can have both EPI & Pancreatitis at the same time.... this is when with some dogs, it doesn't seem to happen overnight but rather the dog is experiencing pancreatic attacks and simultaneously EPI is developing.

This was explained to me a few years ago. I suspect it is still basically true, unless newer research has debunked this.

With regards to Trixie, and how she is acting.... two things come to mind....
1. this might be something other than EPI or pancreas related and everyone is looking in the wrong place.... so for now... keep a written record and if you can even video Trixie when she is having a very uncomfortable episode so that you can show the vet. Sometimes how we explain things doesn't do the situation justice but a picture or video really tells the story.
2. your description of what Trixie is going thru is giving me a little deja vu.....with a personal situation ....... I'd REALLY watch Trixie closely and jsut because the vet said that the gallbladder is okay.... i wouldn't totally wipe this off the list of possibilities..... as i agree with Andrea...... this kind of smacks of gallbladder/gallstones.... and just because they didn't find anything doesn't mean that there is nothing there. There is such a thing as sludge that often does not show up on the tests and you will see symptoms like this... or it can be a bunch of such itty bitty tiny "stones" that, again, don't show up in the test.... try avoiding giving Trixie anything fatty and better yet, if you can, try giving her only very lean food. if she doesn't want to eat, li wouldn't push it.... just in case this is what is going on.
Again.... write things down what she had/her reaction and take a video of when she is not doing well, so the vet can see first hand.

And lastly... i looked up the Allergy Research Group... what i found was this, and this product doesn't sound like it is potent enough to treat an EPI dog, and at 1 she is an EPI dog... is this the product you ar using??? https://www.thenatural.com/allergy-rese ... rLEALw_wcB If yes... she might need different enzymes, in which case i would order a small amount of 6x from Enzyme Diane.... to try 250 grams for $93
https://enzymediane.com/product/pancrea ... e-product/

Not sure if any of this is helpful... but i sure hope so as we want Trixie to feel better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Olesia711]

ahhhh... i just saw Jill's post.... yep this is what it sounds like to me.... a gallbladder issue..... even though the tests were supposedly negative........

[TrixEPIMama]

Olesia and Jill -- Thank you, thank you, thank you. I feel we may finally be getting somewhere.

A sludgy gall bladder needing some thinning. Who knew that such a thing was even ... a thing? But you both point in the same direction my DV was pointing, and I'll follow up with this. And while I'm sorry you've both had personal experience with this issue, that makes your words ring so true.

Definitely no fatty foods for Trixie now. I've also been giving her 3-4 smaller meals a day instead of her usual two. That seems to help a bit.

And Olesia, yes, the link you posted is to the product we've been using to treat Trixie's EPI. It still does a perfect job of keeping her poops normal as it has from the beginning (as they remained even through her recent illnesses), but I've questioned, myself, how that tiny amount of powder can be doing the job usually done by much larger doses of enzymes.

Is it possible that this product, though seemingly okay for her pancreas, has led to gall bladder issues? Or is that likely unrelated?

P.S. Olesia -- Thanks for the primer on pancreatitis and EPI.

[Olesia711]

Hi Trixie's mom,

Sorry i'm a day late with this response.... but to answer your question.....although i don't know for sure.... i don't think you could have prevented "sludge" by giving more potent enzymes........

Please do keep us posted with what they decide might be going on with Trixie......... paws and fingers that they figure it out sooner rather than later and that it is an easy fix.

[TrixEPIMama]

Just a quick sort of "non-update" update.

After three months of Trixie's sufferings and a switch to a new vet we still have no answers, but we finally have some clues and a few things to try.

I won't go into all the details, since they're long and since Trixie's new issues don't appear directly EPI related. But the short version is that a week ago Trixie developed a new problem -- regurgitating multiple times while eating her food. Since our current (now former) vet couldn't find anything wrong, couldn't do anything for the existing gastric issues even after I came in with hints and suggestions from EPI4Dogs, and recommended a high-fat food (which is the last thing she needs), we decided to take a leap to a new vet.

I had learned about a young woman who just graduated two years ago from TAMU's vet program, so we went to her. With the sudden swallowing issue she was worried Trixie's ongoing gastric attacks might have led to megaesophagus. But she xrayed Trixie's entire digestive system top to bottom and found nothing.

T's bloodwork was also perfect -- except for one thing: elevated globulins. Elevated globulins might indicate anything from ulcers to allergies to cancer, so it's now time for a higher quality ultrasound than she had three months ago, possibly followed by needle biopsies and/or exploration by a camera.

In the meantime, my old vet and friend -- Dear Vet from my out-of-state hometown -- suggests we put Trixie on an elimination diet and she's going to set us up with a prescription food, Purina Elemental. (I'll also keep the new Texas vet in the loop on this, of course, and make sure she agrees.)

We are also feeding Trixie entirely from puzzles and lick mats for the time being, and those have almost entirely solved the food regurgitation issue.

After three months without solutions or even pointers toward solutions, it feels very good at least to have directions to explore.

Thank you wonderful people again for all your help.

[Olesia711]

glad to hear that she is doing so much better now.... BUT.................. OH MY!!!!!! the puzzles and lick mats appear to have mostly stopped the regurg??? Now that is VERY interesting!!!!!!!! i wonder why! Less air swallowing? less food consumed while swallowing due to having to lick or find small bits of food one at a time??

if you still think this might be Mega E related.......what you might want to do is contact Dr. Leigh Anne Clark over at Univ of GA College of Vet Med.... she did a LOT of research on Mega E. and there is also an amazing organization The Upright Canine Brigade https://caninemegaesophagusinfo.com/ that probably has the latest and greatest Mega E info. If i remember correctly... some types (?) of Mega E can actually correct itself with certain techniques.....

In the meantime.... do keep us posted. I love the idea of trying an elimination diet. The Purina Elemental has actually worked well with a few EPI dogs.... however... there have also been a few EPI dogs that this dies did not agree with... so brace yourself for either or result when trying this diet with Trixie. i hope it works well! BUt if it fails.... please share with your vet that Cornell UNiv came up with a home-made diet for dogs that simply don't respond a commercial hydrolyzed (elimination) diet. we have a ton of information about this on our diet page https://epi4dogs.com/diet-raw-home-prepared-recipes/ (and scroll 1/2 way down) ... but if your vet is interested... he/she can also just go here:
https://www.vet.cornell.edu/departments ... pared-diet.

Good luck and please do keep us posted!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TrixEPIMama]

glad to hear that she is doing so much better now.... BUT.................. OH MY!!!!!! the puzzles and lick mats appear to have mostly stopped the regurg??? Now that is VERY interesting!!!!!!!! i wonder why! Less air swallowing? less food consumed while swallowing due to having to lick or find small bits of food one at a time??

We're guessing less food consumed with each swallow did the trick. The great mystery is why the regurgitation started suddenly one morning and continued with every meal until we switched Trixie to puzzles and lick mats. Sometimes she would cough a mouthful out of her throat with a giant hack; other times the food would seem to go part way down, then she'd struggle in obvious discomfort and fear to urk it back up.

The xrays showed no sign of any esophegeal issues, including Mega E.

if you still think this might be Mega E related.......what you might want to do is contact Dr. Leigh Anne Clark over at Univ of GA College of Vet Med.... she did a LOT of research on Mega E. and there is also an amazing organization The Upright Canine Brigade https://caninemegaesophagusinfo.com/ that probably has the latest and greatest Mega E info. If i remember correctly... some types (?) of Mega E can actually correct itself with certain techniques.....

While it doesn't look like Mega E at this moment we don't know anything definitive. Thank you for the contact name and the links. I'll follow the mega link right now.

In the meantime.... do keep us posted. I love the idea of trying an elimination diet. The Purina Elemental has actually worked well with a few EPI dogs.... however... there have also been a few EPI dogs that this dies did not agree with... so brace yourself for either or result when trying this diet with Trixie. i hope it works well! BUt if it fails.... please share with your vet that Cornell UNiv came up with a home-made diet for dogs that simply don't respond a commercial hydrolyzed (elimination) diet. we have a ton of information about this on our diet page https://epi4dogs.com/diet-raw-home-prepared-recipes/ (and scroll 1/2 way down) ... but if your vet is interested... he/she can also just go here:
https://www.vet.cornell.edu/departments ... pared-diet.

Good luck and please do keep us posted!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I will absolutely keep you posted. After three months of knowing nothing, it's going to be encouraging finding out what the next few weeks reveal.

I hate hate hate the idea of hydrolyzed diets. I read the ingredients and think, "This isn't FOOD." We'll try it for a few weeks, but I won't be surprised if it doesn't work for Trixie. My husband has been wanting us to switch to homemade foods and I confess I've only avoided them because ... well, I'm squeamish about handling hearts, livers, and gizzards. He has stronger guts than I, and if we do need to switch to homemade, I suspect he'll willingly do the most of the prep. So again, thank you for the links and, as always, the helpful info and your eternal attitude of encouragement.

[Chance]

Wow...poor Trixie, and you. It's been an eventful few months it seems! For the regurgitation, I would first have thought of raised slow feeder bowls. Before diagnosis, Rylee suffered from acid reflux something terrible. Vets had said raised bowls were recommended for that. But if your puzzle feeders and lick mats have helped so much, stick with that!

I hope you can find out what is plaguing her, and get back to being herself!

[Olesia711]

Trixie's momma.... yeah...... i hear ya... i too CRINGED when i read but still tried a hydrolyzed food for one of my other dogs....... the ingredients do not resemble food..... BUT......one day i had a conversation with one of the researchers, and i was whining about how crappy hydrolyzed foods are.... and he told me that a dog can actually survive on amino acids.... (all those additives in the prescription hydrolyzed foods)..... but people cannot. i thought that was rather crazy but interesting........ anyway....sometimes they are they only thing that works until you can figure out the offending protein..... so they do have their place.... BUT.... do check out the home-made food for IBD..... it's fairly simple and no organ meats....and may be a better option.