Our New EPI Journey

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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slrocky
Member
Posts: 20
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Ryder
My name: Stacie

Our New EPI Journey

Post by slrocky » 15 Apr 2023, 18:18

Aloha,

My little buddy Ryder and I have just entered the world of EPI. Ryder is a 10 year old maltipoo that weighed 14.8 lbs and is now down to 13.1 lbs and was diagnosed with EPI on 04/03/2023.

This started back in February with symptoms of voluminous yellow diarrhea, voracious appetite, weight loss and coprophagia. My vet put him on probiotics for 10 days which didn't help his symptoms at all. Then she gave him Flagyl for seven days that didn't help either. After researching his symptoms online, I came across EPI and that's when I asked her to test for it. She's phenomenal at trying things I recommend and thank goodness with no push back she did the test.

When she called with his confirmed EPI results she didn't mention anything about his B12 level nor did she mention the possibility of him having SID. I realized how important this is to know for treating EPI for my baby to flourish and become stable only after finding this site and educating myself from the sites wonderful knowledge given about EPI. We have an appointment on Tuesday and I will be getting all of his results and will definitely ask about it. She put him on Hill's Prescription Diet i/d Low fat digestive care which I integrated into his diet over seven days. She also prescribed PancreVed Powder Pancreatic Enzyme concentrate which I began with the new food. He's been on this for one week and I noticed that about 1-2 hours after the meal he would start retching, looking nauseous and just pitiful. There's been no positive change with his stool yet which I know can take a while to improve. He has gained back about six tenths of his weight. My vet was off when I called about this yesterday but the tech said to put him on chicken and rice with the enzymes until the vet could call me back today. He's not retched once since we've started this but his stool is worse than ever even though I didn't think it could get any worse. I've been giving him just a little pure canned pumpkin to see if it would help anything.

Could it be that the food is the cause of his nausea and retching as I know this is a trial and error process? If so, I'm not sure what food she will recommend next but I wanted to see if anyone has any suggestions about food, etc. Since we are at the beginning of this journey I would appreciate any and all feedback.

Mahalo!!

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jilbert57
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Posts: 2092
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Our New EPI Journey

Post by jilbert57 » 15 Apr 2023, 18:24

Hi and welcome to the forum. First off the proper amount of enzyme to kibble ratio is 1 teaspoon enzyme per 1 cup kibble. Sprinkle on top, ad a little room temperature water, stir and let incubate 15 to 20 mins. Then stir again before serving. All food must have enzymes. Is this how you are preparing the meals?

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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slrocky
Member
Posts: 20
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Ryder
My name: Stacie

Re: Our New EPI Journey

Post by slrocky » 15 Apr 2023, 18:39

The vet told me to start with 3/4 tsp enzyme to 3/4 cup of kibble but the way you described to prepare it is exactly how I've been doing it. I do let it sit at least 30 minutes though. He has periodontal disease so I worry about him getting ulcers, bleeding gums, etc.

Should I be giving the one-to-one ratio? I'm not sure how many cases of EPI my vet has encountered. I've read on the forum that not all vets have much experience with it.
Stacie

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jilbert57
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Posts: 2092
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Our New EPI Journey

Post by jilbert57 » 15 Apr 2023, 19:10

No you are doing it correctly. My jack ate 1/3 cup food with 1/3 teaspoon enzyme per meal. You can also wipe his mouth with a wet cloth after if you are worried about mouth sores.
There are 4 parts to EPI that need to be addressed as you probably read:
ENZYMES

DIET:4%fiber or less and usually recommend grain free as grains interfere with the efficacy of the enzymes. Low fat is not needed unless your pup has an issue with fat.

ANTIBIOTIC: SID/SIBO is usually present in EPI animals. This is an overgrowth of bad bacteria in the gut resulting in gas, acid reflux, poor appetite. You can try Pro/Prebiotics, Slippery Elm and if it doesn't resolve we recommend Tylan.

B12: B12 in EPI animal needs to be in the upper high range so it is important to know if his is low.
If it is you can do B12 shots once a week or use an oral supplement with the Intrinsic Factor. Low B12 presents itself in inappetance , fearfullness, etc.

These 4 things must be addressed before things come together. What food were you feeding before the Hills? Low fat nor RX food is needed unless there is a concurrent problem with the EPI.

JILL
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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slrocky
Member
Posts: 20
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Ryder
My name: Stacie

Re: Our New EPI Journey

Post by slrocky » 15 Apr 2023, 19:50

Thanks for all the great information.

He was on Hill's Science Diet Adult Senior 7+ Dry Dog Food for years. He doesn't have any other medical issues so I didn't think he needed to be on low fat food according to everything I read. I'm anxious to hear what new food she recommends.

Thank you, Jill
Stacie

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jilbert57
Staff
Posts: 2092
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Our New EPI Journey

Post by jilbert57 » 15 Apr 2023, 20:33

Here is a link to a EPI log you can keep track of comings and goings for your pup.
https://epi4dogs.com/epi-log/

Here is a list of alot of food that has worked for EPI. One thats good is Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream.

https://epi4dogs.com/dog-food-options/

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

User avatar
slrocky
Member
Posts: 20
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Ryder
My name: Stacie

Re: Our New EPI Journey

Post by slrocky » 15 Apr 2023, 22:07

Oh, wow. Thanks so much for everything you've provided me. It will be nice to have some suggestions if the doctor is unfamiliar with another food choice.

Stacie

CleoM
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Posts: 5
Country: Ireland
Pet name: Cleo

Re: Our New EPI Journey

Post by CleoM » 16 Apr 2023, 07:32

My vet prescribed this dog food also and steroids. I said I would try enzymes and food first before the steroids. Poop has been consistently good for two months now but two weeks into taking Hillls food her skin is dry and itchy. Could it be too low in fat?

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jilbert57
Staff
Posts: 2092
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Our New EPI Journey

Post by jilbert57 » 16 Apr 2023, 09:56

Cleo's parent, if the diet is lacking in fats it could contribute to itchy skin.

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

User avatar
slrocky
Member
Posts: 20
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Ryder
My name: Stacie

Help Please for this new EPI mom

Post by slrocky » 17 Apr 2023, 17:01

Hello everyone,

We're still having problems over here. After switching to boiled rice and chicken (80/20) with powder enzymes from Hill's Prescription I/d because of nausea and retching, Ryder's poop has gotten extremely worse and he seems hungry all the time. The nausea and retching are gone completely though. Could it be that the grain or chicken is giving him a problem? Could I try a grain-free or non-chicken food? We tried Hill's I/d for one week and then the rice and chicken for the weekend because the vet was off and I couldn't get her advice on what to do.

Just received a copy of Ryder's EPI lab results:

TLI - 1.4
B12 - 283
Folate - 15.4

I asked her if we could start him on B12 based on what I've read here on the site and she said yes. Which B12 do you guys recommend? She said I could order it online?? She also is starting him on probiotics. She recommended Purina FortiFlora. Is that what you guys recommend? I have Advita but will switch if Purina is better.

I'm concerned about what she wants to do in regards to his diet. She wants to start him over slowly by putting him back on his original Hill's Science Diet Senior dry dog food "WITHOUT" enzymes. She said to put the probiotic only and do this for a week.... I'm really worried about this because I know he needs the enzymes. Please Help!!

Should he also be on an antibiotic for SIB?

Any advice would be extremely appreciated. I feel so lost!!!!

THANKS!!!
Stacie

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