Separation Anxiety

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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mamabear7
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Posts: 13
Country: United States
State: Kansas
Pet name: Ruby

Separation Anxiety

Post by mamabear7 » 31 Mar 2023, 11:03

Good morning! It’s been awhile so to review - Our boxer Ruby a year and 4 months old. She has been losing weight since last Fall and had on and off chronic soft stools that progressed to explosive diarrhea until enzymes came into our life and then most of our problem has been solved with Purina Pro Plan EN being added, all that remains is poop eating, pica, and non stop scavenging.

We had our visit with an IMS yesterday at a veterinary hospital at a state university. We walked through Ruby’s history and they reviewed all her blood work. She had a body condition of 3/9 but her muscle condition is very good. She is very slender but they think part of that is just puppy stage still and her being a very active breed.

The IMS there thinks that we have caught the EPI very early. She doesn’t suspect any IBD due to age and lack of other symptoms like regular vomiting or lip smacking, and the fact that the enzymes at a low amount changed everything for her. They do recommend the powder but said she should stay on the tablets until they no longer work for her, since our trial with enzyme Diane didn’t go well. She just doesn’t need a lot right now. She said she will likely eventually need the powder as more of her pancreas atrophies and wants to retest her in 4 months for TLI levels. Her previous 2 tests were 21.7 (unfasted) and 15.5 (fasted).

They did physically take her to the “panel” of docs to review because of how young she is and they all agreed that EPI is what they would diagnose and now it is wait and see. I am thankful that we didn’t end up wasting money on a bunch more blood work that our vet already did, because he did a lot. They just reviewed all of it when we were there.

They reviewed her caloric intake with Purina Pro Plan EN and said she is getting adequate calories for the condition and her activity level. Which is a relief because I feared I was under feeding her. She actually has gained a pound or two since her loss. So that makes me think I just need to keep at it and she will just gain super slow.

Finally we talked about her extreme separation anxiety. Which could be why she eats poop and has pica. Ruby’s breeder ran a daycare and she spent her first months constantly surrounded by kids and activity. They were inside puppies. This was so great for us because we have a son who doesn’t always respect dog’s personal space and we feel safer knowing she has a good temperament. What is not so great is she does NOT like to be alone and her and our frenchie female (queen bee) can not be trusted alone unsupervised. She does really love our cats company and is calmer outside alone with him. In fact he often kennels up in her dog run with her.

My question is does anyone have any experience with CBD and dogs with anxiety? I ordered her some oil from Honest Paws and plan on trying that before using trazadone for her anxiety when she will be in there for extended periods. I have read that these anxiety drugs can cause stomach upset and the last thing I want to do is upset the apple cart now that she is stable. The IMS said she isn’t against CBD so she recommended trying that first. My next question would be if anyone has tried trazadone with an EPI dog and had success without stomach upset? We may keep it in our emergency arsenal when she cannot get into doggy daycare and needs to remain unattended.

My final question would be about a basket muzzle to prevent scavenging when unattended. That is what the IMS suggested since she is an indoor (on furniture) dog and we can’t be having her bringing poop in on her face and paws…. Anyone have any luck with one? She is good at the leave it command while walking but I think being able to just roam the backyard while I am gone instead of being kenneled will help her anxiety. Plus we are moving and will not be able to take her kennel with us. I am going to try a mesh basket muzzle first. She is so food motivated I think I can train her to be okay with it if I put some of her enzymed kibble a treat in it to get her to accept it. Of course I will rinse it each time so they don’t irritate her muzzle.

I appreciate this forum. If it were not for you all, Ruby may not be with us still. Thanks in advance for the advice!

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Olesia711
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Posts: 3857
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Separation Anxiety

Post by Olesia711 » 31 Mar 2023, 15:16

i LOVE the basket muzzles and have often recommended it here to others on the forum for various reasons.... most commonly.... for dog eating inappropriate things when let out in the yard to do their business. Just don't leave the muzzle on all the time... it should not be used as a punishment but rather as a safety measure.

Regarding the CBD.... we have had folks here on the forum that have used it for various reasons... and many of those that used it were quite pleased.... i personally tried it and it did not yield the results i was looking for.... so i think it depends on the condition you are using it for and the individual dog. As far as trazodone vs. CBD... i agree with your vet, i would try the CBD first.

Regarding early onset EPI at a TLI level at 15.5... that is not EPI..... however... that being said....if your vets have tested for everything else and nothing else showed up.... but yet the symptoms that are very EPI-like continue.... then i too would treat with the amount of enzymes that appear to help .....BUT... i would definitely re-do the TLI test in 3 to 6 months to re-assess if it appears that EPI is possibly happening. What you want to look for are declining TLI numbers......

However... i do have 1 question.... before your affirm that this is most likely segueing into EPI... did your vet run any cortisol tests???????? FOR Addisons and or Cushings or A-Typical Cushings? This is very important to test for.... especially when TLI test results come back not EPI- - not anywhere near EPI .., and yet EPI symptoms persist.... You REALLY don't want to "assume" this is EPI until you have run the usual suspects of tests to eliminate other possibilities.

We have had cases here, where the TLI came back in the teens.... definitely not EPI, but all other tests yielded nothing, and the same symptoms persisted. Thankfully the enzymes helped and sure enough.... When re-tested a year later.... it was full blown EPI. So i DO think it is a very good idea to continue with the enzymes... but do re-test !
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Montgomery
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Posts: 418
Country: Canada
Pet name: Montgomery (I'm a CAT!)
My name: V

Re: Separation Anxiety

Post by Montgomery » 31 Mar 2023, 19:42

A friend had an extremely anxious dog and she found that a D.A.P. collar from the veterinarian worked extremely well with him. Nothing else did. He just had to wear it, didn't have to eat it. It made a massive difference.
Montgomery was born 20 March 2012. He eats extra lean ground chicken, lean ground pork and lean ground beef completed with Alnutrin and freeze-dried chicken liver, with hard-cooked egg. He gets two size zero capsules of Enzyme Diane's enzymes at each of his six meals, and a size four capsule of Tylan three times a day. He's a fierce little Spitfire with a roaring Merlin engine.

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