Advice for puppy with epi

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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victoriavr7
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Posts: 7
Location: Leicester
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Twix
My name: Victoria

Advice for puppy with epi

Post by victoriavr7 » 11 Jan 2023, 07:04

Hi everyone,
My 7 month old Border Collie, Twix, has been diagnosed with epi since 4 months old. It came on suddenly after his final puppy vaccines. Since the diagnosis he's had phases of weight gain and then relapses into weight loss. It is very worrying. His last recorded weight was 12.6kg (before Christmas).
He has just finished a 1 month course on Tylan but towards the end of the course he started producing liquid diarrhea (like before he started the Tylan). I have no idea where to go next? His routine was working well, he was gaining weight and growing and now it's stopped.

His routine was:
Protexin proenzorb enzymes 0.37g on every meal three times a day.
Slippery Elm 1/8 tsp before morning and evening meal with water.
Tylan 0.275g with morning and evening meal.
Fortiflora probiotic 2 sachets with lunch meal.
Protexin Vitamin B12 1 capsule with morning meal.

We have stopped the slippery elm along with the Tylan as he started producing severe cow pat like diarrhea while on both.

Any advice on what to do, I'm not sure what to do next?
Thank you
Victoria

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jilbert57
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State: Washington

Re: Advice for puppy with epi

Post by jilbert57 » 11 Jan 2023, 09:31

Hi Victoria and welcome to you and Twix.
If you have the test results from the Tli test to diagnose Epi will you post?

Was the B12 and Folate tested also?
The B12 level needs to be up in the high range.

What food are you feeding Twix? Usually a grain free diet is recommended with fiber of 3.5% or less. The grains in the food can interfere with the action of the enzymes.

The enzyme you are using, each capsule contains 1 mg of B12. Does the Enzorb contain the Intrinsic Factor? This ususlly needs to be present to work.

Also you open the capsule and sprinkle on food with no incubation.

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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victoriavr7
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Posts: 7
Location: Leicester
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Twix
My name: Victoria

Re: Advice for puppy with epi

Post by victoriavr7 » 11 Jan 2023, 10:18

Hi,
I don't have a copy of the test results but I can ask for one. The vet said the B12 levels were normal but we should carry on giving the B12 supplement anyway just in case. I'm not sure about the folate level.

We feed Twix Edgard and Cooper grain free Venison dry kibble with 150% increase on the portion size. It contains 4% fibre.

The enzymes and the seperate B12 supplement both have an intinsic factor. We only sprinkle the proenzorb enzymes, never incubate as per the brands instructions.

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jilbert57
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State: Washington

Re: Advice for puppy with epi

Post by jilbert57 » 11 Jan 2023, 10:32

Thank you for the answers.
Since your pup is growing were you upping the Tylan dose to fit your pups weight gain?

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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victoriavr7
Member
Posts: 7
Location: Leicester
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Twix
My name: Victoria

Re: Advice for puppy with epi

Post by victoriavr7 » 11 Jan 2023, 11:14

Yes we were increasing it. The dosage was between 0.2 and 0.3 g so as he grew we went up more towards 0.3.
I am wondering if we need to change his enzymes as he has all the symptoms back from before he started them?
Victoria

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jilbert57
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Posts: 2092
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Advice for puppy with epi

Post by jilbert57 » 11 Jan 2023, 11:25

Are you using 1 capsule split between how many meals or how are you doing that?

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

User avatar
victoriavr7
Member
Posts: 7
Location: Leicester
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Twix
My name: Victoria

Re: Advice for puppy with epi

Post by victoriavr7 » 11 Jan 2023, 11:33

We weigh out 0.37g for each meal. It is sprinkled from the capsule onto a microgram scale and then on to the food. It comes to about 2.5 capsules a day.
The Tylan is soluble powder form so it was just weighed and mixed into the food before the enzymes were added.
We have a vet appointment tomorrow to discuss what to try next, I'll check his B12 result at the same time.
Victoria

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jilbert57
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Posts: 2092
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Advice for puppy with epi

Post by jilbert57 » 11 Jan 2023, 11:40

Let us know how the appointment goes.
I was going to say maybe you need to tweak the enzyme amount up a little.

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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Olesia711
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Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
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Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Advice for puppy with epi

Post by Olesia711 » 11 Jan 2023, 11:44

Victoria... is this the food you are using?
Image

If so... i think i would try a different food as it has peas as the 3rd & 4th ingredient.... and peas can wreak havoc with our EPI dogs....

Also..... the enzymes you are on..... give me a moment to check up on them................this may also be part of the problem.

Glad to hear that the et want to continue with B12, but try and gt the actual B12 blood test results as that will help us.
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Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Olesia711
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Posts: 3858
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Advice for puppy with epi

Post by Olesia711 » 11 Jan 2023, 11:49

okay... the Pro-Ensorb is low in the necessary enzymes "if" this was regular powdered enzymes.... however..... i am pretty sure these are enteric coated enzymes which is totally different in dosing........ :(
Screenshot 2.jpg
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Image ... in other words the dose can be a lot less. HOwever.... it says to mix in the food.... do you serve the food immediately after you ix it in? If you let the food sit, this will dissolve the enteric coating and then the full potency is not making it down the digestive track as intended with the enteric coating.

If you can walk us thru exactly how you are preparing the meals (volume of a meal and volume of enzymes used for a meal... and how you prepare and serve it....) this would be very helpful for us to better help you..............

Let me contact Jean, in the UK.... she actually had multiple discussions with this company as there were issues....... and she can advise you ow much to give.

Oh... and just to make sure.... these are the enzymes you are using correct? Image
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Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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