Bad Breath

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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PipersMom
Member
Posts: 164
Country: United States
State: New Jersey
Pet name: Piper
My name: Shawn

Re: Bad Breath

Post by PipersMom » 26 Oct 2022, 07:34

To go along with what I posted earlier and ordered the Nordic Omega 3 oil to replace the hemp seed oil.


Also I went from the 93% and draining fat before making her food to using 90% an d using the fat as the doctor said to leave it in... I also stopped using cream cheese to give Piper her meds to a little PB and her stool seems to be better. Keeping fingers crossed as it has only been a few days. I have not changed the oil YET
Shawn, from NJ. Piper is Chow Chow, German Shepherd, Catahoula Leopard Dog, Bluetick Coonhound, Boxer, Border Collie, and Pit. Born 8/28/19.

EPI Diagnoised
: 4/7/21 (cTLI-1.8, B-12-<150, Folate->24). Started Enzymes 4/8/21. Piper's weight dropped to 45 but was a is a steady 50lbs. Lowest weight 42lbs. As of 4/5/21 B12 was 505. As of 12/14/22 was 830
Daily Meds: PancreVed Powder with each meal, B-12 1000mg every other day, Proin 25 mg BID, Gabapentin 150mg BID, Proviable-Forte Capsule, Priolosec 20mg and Incurin .5mg. If needed: Galiprant, Cerenia, Tylan
Current Food: Homemade food by me with a vet nutritionist recipe that has added vitamins and minerals.

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PipersMom
Member
Posts: 164
Country: United States
State: New Jersey
Pet name: Piper
My name: Shawn

Re: Bad Breath

Post by PipersMom » 27 Oct 2022, 19:33

For two days Pipers stool was better and almost back to normal then tonight she had a bowel that was so voluminous, soft, mushy and had that gelatinous clear coating on it. It has not been this bad since she was first diagnosed.

I guess it may be time to try tylan? if not yet what else should I try?
Shawn, from NJ. Piper is Chow Chow, German Shepherd, Catahoula Leopard Dog, Bluetick Coonhound, Boxer, Border Collie, and Pit. Born 8/28/19.

EPI Diagnoised
: 4/7/21 (cTLI-1.8, B-12-<150, Folate->24). Started Enzymes 4/8/21. Piper's weight dropped to 45 but was a is a steady 50lbs. Lowest weight 42lbs. As of 4/5/21 B12 was 505. As of 12/14/22 was 830
Daily Meds: PancreVed Powder with each meal, B-12 1000mg every other day, Proin 25 mg BID, Gabapentin 150mg BID, Proviable-Forte Capsule, Priolosec 20mg and Incurin .5mg. If needed: Galiprant, Cerenia, Tylan
Current Food: Homemade food by me with a vet nutritionist recipe that has added vitamins and minerals.

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PipersMom
Member
Posts: 164
Country: United States
State: New Jersey
Pet name: Piper
My name: Shawn

Re: Bad Breath

Post by PipersMom » 31 Jan 2023, 09:00

So let me give some updates.,,,

So since last time Piper's stool is a little better. Formed yet still a tad soft. We are trying to get her diet correct. I know the 2nd Nutritionist I consulted uses BalanceIt as opposed to the first one that has his own.. So I am going to show you each diet plan I have received thus far. Keep in mind when Piper was on The Farmers Dog Beef recipe her stool was wonderful however the internist wanted it changed because he felt the fat content was way too high :?: So since then I have been Home Batch Cooking for her which I do not mind and it saves a ton of money too.

But before I change it up for a third time I wanted to get you opinions first as I have received better consults here then at the internist which honestly I do not think they know much because they gloss over it.

I have attached the Three and they are the 1st, 2nd and the third diet. I am currently making the 2nd one.

So I greatly appreciate your input as to which one looks best to you all.

THANK YOU!!!
Attachments
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Shawn, from NJ. Piper is Chow Chow, German Shepherd, Catahoula Leopard Dog, Bluetick Coonhound, Boxer, Border Collie, and Pit. Born 8/28/19.

EPI Diagnoised
: 4/7/21 (cTLI-1.8, B-12-<150, Folate->24). Started Enzymes 4/8/21. Piper's weight dropped to 45 but was a is a steady 50lbs. Lowest weight 42lbs. As of 4/5/21 B12 was 505. As of 12/14/22 was 830
Daily Meds: PancreVed Powder with each meal, B-12 1000mg every other day, Proin 25 mg BID, Gabapentin 150mg BID, Proviable-Forte Capsule, Priolosec 20mg and Incurin .5mg. If needed: Galiprant, Cerenia, Tylan
Current Food: Homemade food by me with a vet nutritionist recipe that has added vitamins and minerals.

Jane&Clyde
Member
Posts: 157
Country: United States
Pet name: Clyde
My name: Jane

Re: Bad Breath

Post by Jane&Clyde » 31 Jan 2023, 15:20

I will admit that I haven't read back over this entire thread, so my thoughts may be completely off base. Also, I know that Piper has more than one condition, and I know nothing about those conditions or combining them with EPI. So, take what I say with a grain of salt.

From a strictly EPI standpoint, none of those diets are what I would first recommend. They all have WAY too much fiber. Fiber negatively affects most dogs with EPI because it interferes with the enzymes. Of course, there are exceptions. Is there some reason the internist wanted Piper to have a lower fat diet? Does she have pancreatitis or another condition that requires this? Dogs with EPI don't need a low fat diet, although a very high fat diet may need an increased amount of enzymes. If there isn't a need for a lower fat diet, I would be tempted to go back to the Farmer's Dog because it was working. If you want to continue making your own food, I would suggest a low fiber diet with no peas or chicken as a starting point.

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PipersMom
Member
Posts: 164
Country: United States
State: New Jersey
Pet name: Piper
My name: Shawn

Re: Bad Breath

Post by PipersMom » 01 Feb 2023, 03:55

They have said that Piper has some gastritis/gastroenteritis as well so want more fiber in it. I am actually writing to this new internist to ask this very question. Thank you!
Shawn, from NJ. Piper is Chow Chow, German Shepherd, Catahoula Leopard Dog, Bluetick Coonhound, Boxer, Border Collie, and Pit. Born 8/28/19.

EPI Diagnoised
: 4/7/21 (cTLI-1.8, B-12-<150, Folate->24). Started Enzymes 4/8/21. Piper's weight dropped to 45 but was a is a steady 50lbs. Lowest weight 42lbs. As of 4/5/21 B12 was 505. As of 12/14/22 was 830
Daily Meds: PancreVed Powder with each meal, B-12 1000mg every other day, Proin 25 mg BID, Gabapentin 150mg BID, Proviable-Forte Capsule, Priolosec 20mg and Incurin .5mg. If needed: Galiprant, Cerenia, Tylan
Current Food: Homemade food by me with a vet nutritionist recipe that has added vitamins and minerals.

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jilbert57
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Posts: 2092
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Bad Breath

Post by jilbert57 » 01 Feb 2023, 09:09

I am in agreement with Jane. Seems too high in grains and legumes and as noted grains interfere with the efficacy of the enzymes. Also Jane's advice on fat was spot on.

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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PipersMom
Member
Posts: 164
Country: United States
State: New Jersey
Pet name: Piper
My name: Shawn

Re: Bad Breath

Post by PipersMom » 03 Feb 2023, 06:37

Let let me ask this. My doctor said yo ask you all for your suggestions and then we can run through Balanceit. So far I have calculated dropping the rice. Here is what I have. Please give me your suggestions and then I can give it to my vet. The internist I gave up with as she wants a ton of rice.

This is a new recipe from the original nutritionist,,,

9oz Ground 90% beef
2 egg or 2oz of scrambled egg
1/2 cup mashed sweet potatoes
1/4 cup brown rice
1 oz pumpkin
1 tsp canola oil
1ml Nordic Naturals Omega 3 Pet
vit/min addit

908 Cal
38% Proteins (346 cals)
43% Fats (387 cals)
19% Carbs (175 cals)
69.2% Moisture

Looking forward to hearing what all have to say. Thank you in advance!
Shawn, from NJ. Piper is Chow Chow, German Shepherd, Catahoula Leopard Dog, Bluetick Coonhound, Boxer, Border Collie, and Pit. Born 8/28/19.

EPI Diagnoised
: 4/7/21 (cTLI-1.8, B-12-<150, Folate->24). Started Enzymes 4/8/21. Piper's weight dropped to 45 but was a is a steady 50lbs. Lowest weight 42lbs. As of 4/5/21 B12 was 505. As of 12/14/22 was 830
Daily Meds: PancreVed Powder with each meal, B-12 1000mg every other day, Proin 25 mg BID, Gabapentin 150mg BID, Proviable-Forte Capsule, Priolosec 20mg and Incurin .5mg. If needed: Galiprant, Cerenia, Tylan
Current Food: Homemade food by me with a vet nutritionist recipe that has added vitamins and minerals.

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jilbert57
Staff
Posts: 2092
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Bad Breath

Post by jilbert57 » 03 Feb 2023, 09:52

Hi Shawn,
I would think that you might need to just try this recipe however I know it costs for each recipe and the Balance-It amount changes. The sweet potatoes, brown rice and pumpkin supply most of the fiber so if it is too much you might be able to adjust up or down.
I would probably drop the rice first if something was amiss. I am sure more will comment soon.

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

User avatar
PipersMom
Member
Posts: 164
Country: United States
State: New Jersey
Pet name: Piper
My name: Shawn

Re: Bad Breath

Post by PipersMom » 03 Feb 2023, 10:43

jilbert57 wrote: 03 Feb 2023, 09:52 Hi Shawn,
I would think that you might need to just try this recipe however I know it costs for each recipe and the Balance-It amount changes. The sweet potatoes, brown rice and pumpkin supply most of the fiber so if it is too much you might be able to adjust up or down.
I would probably drop the rice first if something was amiss. I am sure more will comment soon.

Jill
Yes. looking at the recipe I will be dropping the rice to maybe 1/3 or 1/4 cup and maybe even leave out the pumpkin since it is not much. Then play around and maybe add another ounce of egg. I am waiting for my vet to approve the diet in Balance it then I can play with it more.


If I may does anyone know approx what the Protein, Fiber and Carb percentage ranges should be?
Shawn, from NJ. Piper is Chow Chow, German Shepherd, Catahoula Leopard Dog, Bluetick Coonhound, Boxer, Border Collie, and Pit. Born 8/28/19.

EPI Diagnoised
: 4/7/21 (cTLI-1.8, B-12-<150, Folate->24). Started Enzymes 4/8/21. Piper's weight dropped to 45 but was a is a steady 50lbs. Lowest weight 42lbs. As of 4/5/21 B12 was 505. As of 12/14/22 was 830
Daily Meds: PancreVed Powder with each meal, B-12 1000mg every other day, Proin 25 mg BID, Gabapentin 150mg BID, Proviable-Forte Capsule, Priolosec 20mg and Incurin .5mg. If needed: Galiprant, Cerenia, Tylan
Current Food: Homemade food by me with a vet nutritionist recipe that has added vitamins and minerals.

User avatar
PipersMom
Member
Posts: 164
Country: United States
State: New Jersey
Pet name: Piper
My name: Shawn

Re: Bad Breath

Post by PipersMom » 03 Feb 2023, 13:22

Do any of these look better?
Attachments
4 recipes.png
4 recipes.png (31.09 KiB) Viewed 676 times
Shawn, from NJ. Piper is Chow Chow, German Shepherd, Catahoula Leopard Dog, Bluetick Coonhound, Boxer, Border Collie, and Pit. Born 8/28/19.

EPI Diagnoised
: 4/7/21 (cTLI-1.8, B-12-<150, Folate->24). Started Enzymes 4/8/21. Piper's weight dropped to 45 but was a is a steady 50lbs. Lowest weight 42lbs. As of 4/5/21 B12 was 505. As of 12/14/22 was 830
Daily Meds: PancreVed Powder with each meal, B-12 1000mg every other day, Proin 25 mg BID, Gabapentin 150mg BID, Proviable-Forte Capsule, Priolosec 20mg and Incurin .5mg. If needed: Galiprant, Cerenia, Tylan
Current Food: Homemade food by me with a vet nutritionist recipe that has added vitamins and minerals.

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