Awaiting Test Results

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
mrockwoo
Member
Posts: 8
Country: United States
State: Colorado
Pet name: Cody
My name: Mike

Awaiting Test Results

Post by mrockwoo » 26 Jul 2022, 15:22

It's been a frustrating couple of months trying to figure out what's wrong with my dog, Cody. He's had symptoms of EPI ever since I got him, but I chocked it up to other things - allergy, eating something he shouldn't have, just a stomach bug, etc. But things have escalated recently and he's dropping weight fast, as well as other changes to his body and personality. Two trips to the dog ER, and $1500 later - I'm now awaiting the results of the TLI (+Folate +B12) test, which may lead to a diagnoses of EPI. After learning about EPI, my dog's symptoms fit the description of EPI exactly. Honestly, I hope my dog is diagnosed with EPI because then I'd be able to take some action to treat him, and I can see this organization and this forum will be a great resource to help me along that path. However, it will be 1-2 weeks until the blood test comes back, he's diagnosed, and I can start a vet-prescribed treatment plan.

While I wait, I'm tempted to just buy these enzymes (non-prescription) and start sprinkling it on his food now. I figure if he doesn't have EPI it won't hurt anything. If he does have EPI, well then I've got a 2 week jump on starting treatment. I know treatment is more complicated then just sprinkling enzymes, but I can't just sit around for 2 more week while my dog continues to degrade.

My question - Is there anything I can do to help him while I wait for his diagnosis? For example - start him on probiotics, feed him as much bland diet as he wants, etc.

Thanks for your time and I appreciate any advice you have regarding what I can do while I wait. I'm having a hard time doing nothing.

Name: Cody
Sex: Male
Age: 1 1/2 years old
Breed: Shepherd Pit Mix
Weight: Starting - 60 lb Current - 51 lb
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Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 1345
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Awaiting Test Results

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 26 Jul 2022, 19:08

Hi, Mike. Cody is adorable! Boy, do I remember feeling the same way you do. So sorry this is happening.

Yes, you can go ahead and give him enzymes with his meals. I would recommend ordering from https://enzymediane.com/
You can get a sample bag. A few days on enzymes won't hurt, if he doesn't have EPI. I level teaspoon of enzymes per one cup of kibble, moistened & allow to sit for 20 minutes before feeding(not just sprinkled on). Feed 150% the amount you would feed if Cody weighed what he should. Break this into 3-4 meals. If Cody has EPI, everything he eats will need to have enzymes. If you follow the link, Diane will also offer info on buying emergency enzymes from a health food store, if you want to go that route. They will not be strong enough for long term treatment, though. Many of us use Diane, because hers are less expensive than the ones from the vet.

Diet should be grain free (very low ratio of peas & white potatoes), with less than 4% fiber. Here are a couple of suggestions--- https://www.sportdogfood.com/ I feed The Herding Dogs formula
https://www.tasteofthewildpetfood.com/ Pacific Stream

Doing these things could give you a head start, if Cody's test is positive. Please look back for more advice from staff. I'm a dog grandma with three years experience, just a member of the forum.

There will be a couple more twists to the routine, if you find Cody does have EPI, but for now these two things may help.

Best luck---Pam & Tucker
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

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Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3857
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Awaiting Test Results

Post by Olesia711 » 26 Jul 2022, 21:34

Hi MIke,

Thanks for writing in..... and thanks for sharing Cody's picture with us... he sure is a cutie and that picture.... oh my... made me laugh... with the B'day hat and cutest ever bow.

So... to answer your question... YES!!!! The enzymes (the real stuff) just like what Pam recommended... i'd go with EnzymeDiane's enzymes.... get the 6x.... to try... and if it is not EPI... the enzymes will not hurt... just that if it is not EPi, you don't want to keep him on the enzymes long term....

Also... in addition to what Pam suggested with regards to the food and enzymes..... since you already had the tests done, you might want to buy a small bottle of B12 from Wonderlabs.... https://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=K9688 because if this is EPI, there is an 80% chance his B12 levels are not in the upper mid range and will need B12 supplemenation.... if it is not EPI but some other gastro problem, like IBD, IBS, Pancreatitis, etc, etc.... they all often need B12 supplementation either just short term to bring the B12 levels up... or ongoing if they have a chronic gastro condition.

The good thing about giving B12 is that if your dog doesn't need it, they will just pee out any extra unneeded B12.... BUT... if they DO need their B12 levels upped, then no matter how perfectly you follow any treatment protocol... if their B12 is not optimal they will not improve as well as expected.

SO.... in short.... might want to go ahead and give him some B12 too.

At his weight, he just needs one Pet Factor B12 capsule daily.

Hope this helps and PLEASE keep us posted.... and would love to see more pictures of Mr. Cody :)
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

mrockwoo
Member
Posts: 8
Country: United States
State: Colorado
Pet name: Cody
My name: Mike

Re: Awaiting Test Results

Post by mrockwoo » 30 Jul 2022, 13:45

I read your responses right away, @Olesia711 & @TuckabooPam, and I got to work on this stuff right away. Your info has kept me occupied and I feel more in control. Thank you so much, I really appreciate it!

The enzymes are purchased and shipping now, and I'm looking into B12 supplements. I do think his personality has changed a bit, which may be related to low B12 levels. He's started to do new things that concern me - scared for no reason, growling randomly, and I catch him occasionally staring blankly at the wall for 30sec while standing still.

I hope I can reverse some of these things and get my old rambunctious dog back. I'm still waiting for the TLI test results to come back - I'll make sure to post an update.

Barb
Staff
Posts: 918
Country: United States
State: New Jersey

Re: Awaiting Test Results

Post by Barb » 30 Jul 2022, 14:42

Hi Mike. You have one handsome boy there. He's also very tolerant of dressing up. After following Olesia's and Pam's suggestions, you might also want to start a log/journal or notebook. Someone suggested it to us when our Kolby was diagnosed many years ago and it saved our sanity (for the most part!) Record everything you give Cody, the amounts and the resulting poos each day. It shows you what is working and what needs to be tweaked. You can use it even if he doesn't have EPI.

Many of us notice changes in our EPI pups before they start treatment. Kolby became fearful of things he was never afraid of, like riding in the car or seeing other dogs on the street etc. Most of these behaviors disappear once they receive the enzymes and start to absorb the nutrients from their food. If Cody does have EPI, once he starts treatment, and even as you start the interim treatment that Olesia and Pam suggested, you should see a change in that kind of behavior.

Let us know how it goes and the results of the tests when you get them.

Barb

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 1345
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Awaiting Test Results

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 30 Jul 2022, 20:22

Mike, yes, remember, if Cody does have EPI(and I agree with you that this would be a positive), then his body has been starving. This can cause all kinds of changes in behavior. Fortunately, you are figuring this all out early on. Tucker's decline was slow, and I feel sad that he suffered for so long. Let us know how things go!---Pam
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

mrockwoo
Member
Posts: 8
Country: United States
State: Colorado
Pet name: Cody
My name: Mike

Re: Awaiting Test Results

Post by mrockwoo » 01 Aug 2022, 11:47

Ugg, his TLI test came back negative for EPI. Makes me question my sanity.

TLI = 9
Cabalamin (B12) = 361
Folate = 11.9

Outliers in his bloodwork were:
Albumin = 2.6 (low range = 2.7)
Cholesterol = 88 (low range = 131)
SDMA = 17 (high range = 14)
Free T4 ng/dL = 4.0 (high range = 3.7)
Free T4 pmol/L = 51.5 (high range 47.6)

Now I'm back to researching what's going on. My vet had no good answers on what's wrong or what to test for next - she just told me just to feed him probiotics and wants to put him on a hydrolyzed protein diet and check back again in 3 months. He's a parvo survivor so she told me he might have Protein Losing Enteropathy.

Anyway, I'm back to square 1. Thank ya'll for the help, I really appreciate the support. If I ever get him a diagnosis, I'll report back here in this thread.

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Jean
Forum Director
Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: Awaiting Test Results

Post by Jean » 01 Aug 2022, 12:29

welcome from UK

did you defintely food fast for 12 hours before the blood test
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

mrockwoo
Member
Posts: 8
Country: United States
State: Colorado
Pet name: Cody
My name: Mike

Re: Awaiting Test Results

Post by mrockwoo » 01 Aug 2022, 13:07

Jean wrote: 01 Aug 2022, 12:29 welcome from UK

did you defintely food fast for 12 hours before the blood test
@Jean - yes. Definitely fasted

Tuckaboo Pam
Member
Posts: 1345
Country: United States
State: Florida
Pet name: Tucker
My name: Pam H.

Re: Awaiting Test Results

Post by Tuckaboo Pam » 01 Aug 2022, 17:16

So sorry, Mike, I know you're disappointed. Keep checking back-somebody will have some ideas.---Pam
Tucker was a shepherd/lab mix--- TLI 1.3, Folate 9.7, Cobalamin 666, Lipase 38. Took Diane's Enzymes 4 teaspoons/day, Wonderlabs B12 one capsule per day, and Tylan 1/16 teaspoon/ morning (to hold SID at bay). Taste of the Wild High Prairie, 1 1/2 cups/day, with a total of 4 cups of Fresh Pet. Stopped eating everything in sight, and went from 60 to 85 pounds! Tucker was my boyfriend, and my husband was OK with that. Tucker succumbed to hemangiosarcoma, but we cherished every day we had with that wonderful, beautiful boy. I will always, always miss my sweet big boy.

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