New to EPI - totally overwhelmed

[Olesia711]

hi Rachel,

Thanks for sharing pictures of Rory... what a sweet looking dog.
And thanks for letting us know how well he is doing on the Farmer's dog food. That is AWESOME!
SOunds like your vet is simply adding a high-dense food to help Rory put on weight. Good idea. However... if the stools start to get sloppy, just swap out the the gastro food for a different low fiber / high protein food...

And definitely feed 150% of what he normally would require BUT break it up into smaller meals but more # of meals throughout the day.
To put on the weight, the coconut oil is a good thing to add
More food, Make sure the B12 is not low

And... if it helps allay any of your concerns... some EPI dogs regain their weight back in a few weeks or months while others take a few years!!! It just all depends on the individual dog.

Another personal experience with how much food an EPI dog "might" need. I had 3 Spanish Water Dogs. My EPI dog was the smallest out of the 3. Izzy ate more than twice as much as my male Spanish WAter Dog who was very athletic AND he weight more than double what Izzy weighed.... and yet... OMG .. throughout her entire life she ate WAY more than he did! So Rory just might be one of those dogs that needs a lot more food. WHen looking to pack on weight in an EPI dog.... always lean towards giving more protein instead of giving more carbs. You can even add low fat cottage cheese, if Rory can have dairy.... cottage cheese is high protein.

Hope this helps a little!

[smilejinks595]

Thank you so much again for the responses! And for the kind words. I definitely hope I can pass on the reassurance and support one day myself!
Yes - Rory has done really well on Farmers Dog up to now (our younger GSD/Husky is on it too). Rory’s on Nutramax B12 supplement (though we will probably switch to wonderlab now), and yes, he’s getting 150% of his food over 3 meals. We also just ordered slippery elm because he is lip licking terribly and we assume it could be bile reflux or similar. Thank you for advice re protein, cottage cheese and the coconut oil. He is having bloods every two weeks right now (more because of the anaemia) and so we will be seeing vet next week. And it’s good to know that he may just be a dog that needs more food than average - will definitely bear that in mind as we hopefully see evidence that the enzymes are doing something!
Thank you again, all!

[smilejinks595]

Hi All,
Sorry to bug yet again. We’ve started Rory on slippery elm mostly because he is lip licking constantly and so we think he must have some bile reflux or similar going on.
We’ve read the page and done some research but we just wanted to be sure we are administering it right? His food is wet food and so fairly moist already. Do we mix the slippery elm in? Or just leave it as a ‘pile’? I tried it separately one time - with just a little bit of his food and a tiny bit of water. I know some people utilise a syringe but Rory struggles with utensils coming towards him We’re currently just adding to his morning and evening food.
Thank you, as always.

[jilbert57]

Hi Rachel, I would mix it in to the moist food after incubation has taken place.

Jill

[smilejinks595]

Thank you, Jill.
I’ve had a second (delayed!) thought - Rory is on a lot of other medications for other issues, which includes a steroid. As he does not have active diarrhoea currently, should we be just giving the slippery elm at night to help with the bile reflux? We’re concerned about the slippery elm affecting the absorption of his other medication, which all have to be given with food.
Thank you!

[jilbert57]

You could try once a day and see if that suffices. If not I would give food and meds then an hour after give SE.

Jill

[Chance]

Slippery elm is something that doesn't not require enzymes; so that can be given any time of day. It doesn't need to be with food.

If the Slippery elm you have is in powder form, you can just mix that with a little water. Just tiny enough to make a "slippery" paste. Many dogs find it "yummy" enough to just eat it. If not, you can add a very teeny bit of broth to make it "yummy". Of course if you have capsules, just stick the pills down the face.

I second Olesia's suggestion of putting enzymes into enteric coated capsules. This way there's no enzymes in the food. Enzymes are only accessible once they've passed the stomach and into the intestines where needed for digestion. Eliminates any risk of mouth sores. (No mixing/incubation is just another bonus)!

[smilejinks595]

Thank you again, Chance and Jill.

Rory is still losing weight (not much - but definitely wrong direction). I’m beginning to think that even though we don’t have the diarrhea issue he should have a course of Tylan to clear things up. His stomach makes noises, he has bad gas, constant lip licking, and the most horrendous smell coming from inside him (like his insides are rotting). We are going to switch to Creon - just waiting on some urine test results. We’ve had the terrible smell before but it was when he had the sores/ulcers in his mouth, so we thought it was related to that. But he doesn’t have ulcer/mouth sores right now and the smell is the worst it’s been. The slippery elm doesn’t seem to be helping with the lip licking either. Rory is immunosuppressed and it seems that’s playing a factor in us getting the EPI under control.
So grateful for this website and forum - it is honestly a godsend.

[Chance]

A lot of people do complain with the smell in the first weeks starting on enzymes. I don't think anyone really knows why. There's talk that maybe it's the gut bacteria dying ogg because it no longer has the undigested food to feed from.

But about 70% claim the smell was much improved on enteric coated enzymes (or enzymes in enteric coated capsules. The bacteria change/undigested->digested food would still be happening. Sooo. Not sure the cause. But going to Creon, I think you'll notice much improvement - once the perfect dose is ironed out!

[jilbert57]

Hi Rachel, I agree with you about the Tylan. When given for SID it is a 45 day course am and pm. It is very bitter so a lot of folks put the dose in an empty gel cap.

Tylan (Tylosin Tartrate) Dosage Guide

13kg/30 lb – 1/8 tsp
27kg/60 lb – 1/4 tsp
41kg/90 lb – 3/8 tsp
54kg/120 lb – 1/2 tsp
twice per day

Jill