Overwhelmed

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Jordy
Member
Posts: 1
Location: Sydney
Country: Australia
Pet name: Ciará
My name: Jordy

Overwhelmed

Post by Jordy » 28 Apr 2023, 12:28

My name is Jordy. I got a German shepherd puppy Ciará from an international student last week after she had had her for 1 week. Long awful story. Pup baby is 3 months old.

During the trial it was evident she was sick. Very underweight. Excessive hunger. Rumbling stomach. Scratching and dry skin. Clay light soft/runny poo. Eating her poo, other poo on little evening walks. Back of her body the fur is odd. List goes on.

I saw my Vet 2 days into my trial and they suggested perhaps she has EPI and wait until mid May for final vax. Never heard of it. Research began.

2 days later, no sleep, diarrhoea everywhere, scared baby pup, me compulsively researching I decided no actually I am not happy to watch her suffer for two more weeks. It also seemed counter productive to give her high calorie diet to fatten her up and monitor weight given severity of symptoms getting worse, and if she isn’t potentially processing the food. I also feel she’s gotten skinnier.

I already love her and we are very bonded. My cat and her play and he follows us ip the street at night for a little walk. She is super smart with walking, and quick to learn toilet training as I live in an apartment. Both on balcony potty grass and big gardens downstairs. She has alot of energy so her internal physical health I want to match. She deserves to be healthy.

I will not give up on her and have had disabled animals before (Shepherd and Hip issue, and Labrador with acute arthritis at 6 months of age and ligament disease with 2 TPLO ops) but I feel alone and lost with this one.

I am scared she is in pain and I won’t be able to manage this. I’m single, a student on break, and got her to keep my older cat company as he misses my previous dog, and to help me with my PTSD.

I’ve already tried cooking home made food. I’ve ditched the initial supermarket kibble prior to observing these symptoms. I’ve ordered enzyme treats to continue healthier training. I bought sweet potatoes, banana to help harden stools, coconut oil and help skin, some herbs I read on here, but now I’m reading more and seeing B12 and enzyme costs, and the life symptoms.

I would never abandon an animal due to cost but I am realistic I’m a student, and I do not have a spouse to balance this out either. Can I please have some support that it will all be ok and I will get into this rhythm? That it can be affordable?

I managed my last dog with bouts of unemployment and my mum helps along the way too. My student life will continue for 3 years max, and then I am starting my therapy business but this all takes time. I am not in a highly secure financial position. Do I need to be?

She will have EPI test Tuesday morning but I am 85% certain this is what she has. I would honestly rather be cautious and get her into treatment asap then watch her be hungry. I cannot watch that. She needs to feel full and content.

She’s got a beautiful nature. I was not able to conceive so my animals are my babies. I’m so sorry if you’ve read this far for my long message but I really am quite sad.

This site actually gives me the most hope and peace when I am upset - hello now crying - so I thought I would force myself to share and tell someone, anyone, who may understand, how I am feeling right now.

Love to you all

Jordy and Ciará 3 month olds
Jordy from Sydney
Probable EPI diagnosis of my 3 month old German Shepherd puppy Ciará.
:cry:

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wsantschi
Member
Posts: 15
Location: Cedar Park
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Lucy
My name: Bill

Re: Overwhelmed

Post by wsantschi » 28 Apr 2023, 18:23

Hello Jordy,
I'm sorry about little Ciara (sorry...no accent). I have a GSD who was diagnosed with EPI September 2021. It's so hard to see them sick. Hopefully you can get some good advice on this site. Fantastic people with tons of knowledge and compassion. I have to think we have had other Aussies/EPI pups. The enzymes that have worked for our Lucy here in the states are Enzyme Diane's 6x and Pantenex enzymes. I really hope you get to the solution quickly. Have hope, if it is EPI, it is very treatable. Best wishes to you and Ciara
Bill Santschi

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Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3857
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Overwhelmed

Post by Olesia711 » 28 Apr 2023, 22:33

Hello Jordy and thank you for contacting us about Ciara. She sounds like a delightful companion.

It is good that you are having her tested for EPI, even if it sounds like it, it is best to test because there are many other conditions that display the same symptoms as EPI, but is not... so you don't want to "assume" and have her not properly treated because it was something else.............

If she has EPI, and since you live in Australia, the medicine that you will need to give her is CREON. CREON is a human drug to treat EPI...
You can contact: (CREON) CHEMIST WAREHOUSE in Australia
https://www.chemistwarehouse.com.au/
you will want: https://www.chemistwarehouse.com.au/buy/61345/creon-10,000-capsules-100

OR..... if you want, you can go ahead and give her CREON before she is properly diagnosed, as CREON (or any enzymes) will not interfere with the cTLI test for EPI. HOWEVER, you do not want to keep a dog on the enzymes for a long time if they do not have EPI.

The good thing about living in Australia is that you can get CREON very cheap.
If you do order the CREON, post here so we can tell you how to give it to her. She will need it with every meal.

If/when you start giving enzymes, in the beginning do not give any grain, but rather use baked/skinned sweet potato or regular mashed white potato. Later on, as things progress, you can try giving some grain and see if it is or is not well tolerated with the enzymes.

ONe thing thought that i would like to say.... with a pup this young (3 months old) it is possible that this is something else... Young pups often pick up all kinds of stuff.... but on the flip side, we have seen puppies even younger be diagnosed with EPI.
Please know that we are here and will help you as best we can.

There is more, like B12 (which you can buy online/cheap) and if this is EPI, then we can suggest to you pre+probiotics to hopefully get her gut in better condition. HOwever, if diarrhea persists after an EPI diagnosis, and after you try recommended pre+probiotics, then the next step is trying a course of Tylosin (Tylan) antibiotic.... however, we save this for last.

IN the meantime, try giving a tsp of canned pumpkin with her food, sometimes this helps with loose stools. or SLippery Elm powder (dosing instructions are here: https://epi4dogs.com/slippery-elm/ )

the other thing that also might help is feed her smaller meals, but just feed her more meals throughout the day/night. feeding smaller portions also often helps with gut issues.

YOur vet is also correct, wait on the remaining vaccine until after you see what the EPI test yields ... so you know what is going on.

Hopefully this helps a little.
Please keep us updated.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Montgomery
Member
Posts: 418
Country: Canada
Pet name: Montgomery (I'm a CAT!)
My name: V

Re: Overwhelmed

Post by Montgomery » 29 Apr 2023, 14:32

You're an amazing person and this puppy is so lucky to have found her way into your home. It's a lot but you can do this, and this forum and the people who visit it are the best around.
Montgomery was born 20 March 2012. He eats extra lean ground chicken, lean ground pork and lean ground beef completed with Alnutrin and freeze-dried chicken liver, with hard-cooked egg. He gets two size zero capsules of Enzyme Diane's enzymes at each of his six meals, and a size four capsule of Tylan three times a day. He's a fierce little Spitfire with a roaring Merlin engine.

Chance
Member
Posts: 195
Country: Canada
Pet name: Chance
My name: Andrea

Re: Overwhelmed

Post by Chance » 02 May 2023, 01:28

EPI is VERY scary, especially in the beginning! I am very happy you decided to have her tested now, rather than waiting 2 weeks. That sounds like a very wise decision.

If you are in Australia, it's already Tuesday morning; so you may have had the test done now. But I would suggest picking up a bottle of Creon before getting the results back. It won't harm Ciara starting enzymes even if it's not EPI. Enzymes can also be useful for other ailments, including IBD or pancreatitis. If the test is positive, you've already started treatment. If it's negative, you'll at least see if the enzymes are helping at all.

Once you have the results, and see where the B12 levels are, you may need to get Ciara started on B12 injections.

My dog is on Creon; and honestly it has been the best enzymes for him! (He did start on powdered enzymes at first...which certainly did help. But once we dialed in on the right dose of Creon; there's no going back)!

Chance
Member
Posts: 195
Country: Canada
Pet name: Chance
My name: Andrea

Re: Overwhelmed

Post by Chance » 02 May 2023, 07:29

Jordyn, if possible, check out the EPI Australia/New Zealand Facebook group. A heartbroken lady named Joanne has just lost her GSD. She has some Creon left over she would like to "pay forward". I believe she's around the Victoria area on Au? She's willing to post it if someone isn't local.

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Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3857
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Overwhelmed

Post by Olesia711 » 02 May 2023, 11:38

good suggestion!

here is the link:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/EPIAUNZ
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Jean
Forum Director
Posts: 1707
Location: South Liverpool
Country: United Kingdom - England
Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
My name: Jean

Re: Overwhelmed

Post by Jean » 02 May 2023, 11:57

Good evening from the UK

my girl was 14 months at diagnosis, we have had very young puppies on this forum

but just incase you havent had her EPI tested, you need to have a clear food fasting for 12 hours before; and ask for Cobalamin (b12) as well to be tested,, again 12 hr food fasted

also ask for blood test,/ fecal test for Giardia, which ever they do these days, and a full blood panel

God love you, and your temerity in getting things done

please let us know

Scrambled egg and mashed potato goes down very well with a sore belly , you might need antibiotics which I believe you can get Tylan in Aus, but wait for the test results and then we can go for whatever it is

keep a note book, have a look at our templates

https://epi4dogs.com/epi-log/?fbclid=IwAR0N559gz1MYrW0Gl3bcmIjHqrLGGKcneWT07dxdX25pdZU00T-ed7hxG84

this is a log template

jxxx
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk

I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of

My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day

Lowest weight 39 pounds

We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules

Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM


Jeanx

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