Old Dog Vestibular Disease & Cancer

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Michaela
Member
Posts: 148
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Nikki
My name: Michaela

Old Dog Vestibular Disease & Cancer

Post by Michaela » 02 Apr 2023, 06:15

So, my Nikki is 13 now and we're having a hard time.

In January she had problems getting up and they discovered Nikki has a large tumor on her liver and nodules on her spleen. Without further testing we don't know for certain, but they highly suspect cancer :( We decided against putting her through surgery at her age and to just keep her comfortable.

Thinks were going ok until four days ago, when she had another vestibular episode but this time much worse and I can't get her to eat her food. Thursday when I picked her up from Urgent Care, she did eat with a lot of help but that's it, she won't touch it now. I have tried everything; she just turns away from it, but you can tell she is hungry. I don't think she's nauseous because she is drinking and taking treats just fine, she's also on Cerenia and Entyce. Having EPI of course complicates things, so far we have avoided any stomach upset which is a small miracle.

Right now, she is surviving on me crushing up her Hypo Treats with her enzymes, she loves them. Yesterday she did eat a little bit of dry food, which she usually never likes. So, I fixed her some of the dry food with the enzymes and she wouldn't touch it. We'll see what happens today. Her regular diet was RC Low Fat Gastrointestinal canned for many years, but I changed her to home cooked about a month ago because it was becoming such a struggle getting her to eat it (she was never crazy about it) and I wanted her to enjoy her food for whatever time she has left. She couldn't wait to eat her home cooked diet until this second episode of vestibular disease and now she won't touch it.

I've tried hand feeding her, adding bone broth, sprinkling it with crushed treats, also tried the RC Gastrointestinal. Picked up some baby food and she did eat that, so I thought the texture of her food was the issue. Bought an Immersion blender to puree her food and she won't touch it...ugh. I'm hoping she just needs some more time to get over this but was wondering if anyone here had a similar experience. We have an appointment tomorrow with her regular vet.

Nikki is not ready to give up yet, that much I know but if I can't get her to eat better soon, I'll have to make a tough decision.

R.I.P. Nikki 11/21/2009 - 05/23/2023

Nikki was diagnosed with EPI in 2010
Royal Canin Gastrointestinal Low Fat canned
Slippery Elm syrup for stomach issues
1 tsp Pan-Tenex enzymes with each meal
Weekly B12 shots, pills didn't work for her
Tylan for life


"If there ever comes a day when we can't be together, keep me in your heart, I'll stay there forever."

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jilbert57
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Posts: 2092
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Old Dog Vestibular Disease & Cancer

Post by jilbert57 » 02 Apr 2023, 09:28

Have you tried warming up the food a tad so she can smell it? How about spreading it in a Likimat? When Kiya had her vestibular attacks they led to hard of hearing and seeing. Has she had her ears checked for an infection?
Also I would invite you to join one of the Vestibular sites on FB as there are so many caring people with great insights.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/223236494761088/?ref=share

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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Michaela
Member
Posts: 148
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Nikki
My name: Michaela

Re: Old Dog Vestibular Disease & Cancer

Post by Michaela » 02 Apr 2023, 09:50

Yes, I put her meat in a pan and browned it really good & I tried feeding her from a plate (I don't have a likimat). It almost seems like she forgot how to eat in a way. She's still sleeping, I'll see if she'll eat when she wakes up.

It does seem like she can't hear really well. I will get her ears checked tomorrow again but I usually know when she has an ear infection.

Thank you for the FB group, I just requested to join!

R.I.P. Nikki 11/21/2009 - 05/23/2023

Nikki was diagnosed with EPI in 2010
Royal Canin Gastrointestinal Low Fat canned
Slippery Elm syrup for stomach issues
1 tsp Pan-Tenex enzymes with each meal
Weekly B12 shots, pills didn't work for her
Tylan for life


"If there ever comes a day when we can't be together, keep me in your heart, I'll stay there forever."

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jilbert57
Staff
Posts: 2092
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Old Dog Vestibular Disease & Cancer

Post by jilbert57 » 02 Apr 2023, 10:04

I will see you on there! I stayed around to help other members.
Kiyas attack coincided with Frontline Plus application(I now use deterrants instead).

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

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Olesia711
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Posts: 3858
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Old Dog Vestibular Disease & Cancer

Post by Olesia711 » 02 Apr 2023, 12:12

My Izzy had central brain inflammation vestibular disease vs. the old age Vestibular disease... and it was SOOOOOOoooooooooooo sad to see her strugle for about a month.... i am at the cabin right now, so i do not have the information with the drugs that Izzy was given... but same thing... she really didn't want to eat in the beginning and the vet explained to me that her world is spinning. Izzy also couldn't walk down any stairs (this took a month to work thru) and she "hugged" the walls when she did walk. THe vet told me to ALWAYS leave a light on for her so that her eyesight could latch on to something.

I don't know if the old age vestibular lingers like the central brain vestibular does.... with Izzy it was life long,... but in time he got acclimated to her vision spinning and she compensated and went back pretty much to "normal" or as normal can be over time.

Feeding WAS an issue in the beginning.... it sounds like you are doing similar to what i did. Maybe just bring the food to her vs. expecting her to go to her food bowl??? Glad Jill gave you a group to join........ i sure hope it helps....

sending many healing vibes your way!!!!!!!!!!
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Michaela
Member
Posts: 148
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Nikki
My name: Michaela

Re: Old Dog Vestibular Disease & Cancer

Post by Michaela » 03 Apr 2023, 10:20

How did they diagnose which vestibular disease Izzy had? I'm going to see if I can get Nikki in to see the Neurologist.

Nikki's water is set up in my living room and I bring food to her, she still can't walk without assistance. I did take her to the spot she usually eats just to see if that made a difference.

She still won't touch her regular food, only eats her Hypo treats w/enzymes, so she's only getting about 1/2 of her calories right now.

R.I.P. Nikki 11/21/2009 - 05/23/2023

Nikki was diagnosed with EPI in 2010
Royal Canin Gastrointestinal Low Fat canned
Slippery Elm syrup for stomach issues
1 tsp Pan-Tenex enzymes with each meal
Weekly B12 shots, pills didn't work for her
Tylan for life


"If there ever comes a day when we can't be together, keep me in your heart, I'll stay there forever."

User avatar
Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3858
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Old Dog Vestibular Disease & Cancer

Post by Olesia711 » 03 Apr 2023, 12:15

THe vet that carried Izzy from the car into the clinic... took one look at her and said vestibular disease.... BUT he couldn't figure out which one it was cause Izzy's eyes were spinning BOTH up and down and back and forth..... they kept her in the hospital for 4 days on IVs.... and couldn't figure out which one it was. They said that the cause was crucial to giving the right treatment..... because they couldn't figure it out.... they first treated her for old age vestibular to no avail.... and then put her on heavy drugs (i am not home right now, so i do not have access to the files i saved about this) , for central brain inflammation and that is when she started to show minimal improvement.... it was LONG haul. and sad to watch this vibrant little dog be taken down.

I remember i had to keep her on a leash (that i kept very short and kept her close to my body while walking)....whenever i needed to take her outside to eliminate.

Like i said, i don't have the files in front of me, but if i remember correctly they wanted to do an MRI or scan to better figure out what could have triggered this vestibular disease but then they decided to treat for one type and then the other type to see if they could make some progress. Luckily they did.

TO this day i have no idea what REALLY triggered it, but in the end, the vets said they thought that it was very possible that her central brain inflammation vestibular disease most likely was caused by an infection from Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever that they discovered that she contracted when they were running tests on her, even though she was on tick and flea meds..............

I went on line and found this about feeding a dog with vestibular disease.... maybe this will help you...
https://toegrips.com/how-to-feed-a-dog-with-vestibular-disease/
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

1. HOW TO FEED A DOG WITH VESTIBULAR DISEASE: A COMPREHENSIVE GUIDE
DR. JULIE BUZBY SEPTEMBER 2, 2021 47 COMMENTS
vestibular disease.


4 tips for feeding a dog with vestibular disease
To help you help your dog eat and drink during an episode of vestibular disease, I have compiled these four tips. Most of them are easy to do and use things that you already have around the house.

As a word of caution, if your dog is actively vomiting or unable to hold his or her head upright, you should not offer him or her food. A dog can go multiple days without eating. It is better to wait for his or her condition to improve than to risk your dog vomiting and accidentally choking on the vomit or getting aspiration pneumonia.

1. Keep your dog well supported when lying down.
Mastiff mix lying down among several pillows for support, photo
Dogs with vestibular disease may roll and become unbalanced. Protecting with soft pillows and keeping off beds and couches is recommended.
A dog suffering from vestibular disease often feels more comfortable with firm support behind the back when lying down. Sometimes a dog is not able to stand up yet, but can raise his or her head and attempt to eat a little bit.

In this case, position your dog against a wall or other solid surface that supports the back and pelvis. The brain may still be making your dog feel like he or she is spinning or leaning. But the support of the wall should help your dog be less likely to roll or fall when trying to eat.

Even when not trying to eat or drink, some support can be very helpful for your canine companion. Chances are, if your dog was hospitalized at the vet clinic, he or she would probably be positioned in a corner with his or her back well-padded with rolled bedding.

This technique can be used to keep your dog comfortably supported in either a lying or sitting position. You can use a bolstered dog bed, pillows, rolled towels or other similar items to position your pup.


2. Offer support when standing.
As recovery progresses, your dog may want to stand and eat in an upright position. Consider creating a place where he or she can lean against a wall or stable furniture. This may help him or her feel more comfortable when eating.

Place your dog’s food and water bowls at a slightly elevated height (just below the chest is ideal) using a box, step stool, or stand. Then position it in a corner where your dog can lean against the wall on one side and have you support his or her shoulder and chest on the other side.


3. The more stability you can offer your dog, the better. Ensure he or she is on a slip-free surface when walking, standing, eating, and drinking. Avoid towels or blankets on the floor that can slide under his or her feet or present a tripping hazard. Instead, put down yoga mats or rubber-backed rugs to help with traction and provide padding.

Also, consider applying Dr. Buzby’s ToeGrips® dog nail grips. These rubber rings are easy to place on your dog’s nails and will help him or her gain traction wherever he or she goes. This added traction can help your dog feel more secure and confident when walking and standing.

Additionally, ToeGrips seem to improve proprioception—a dog’s sense of where his or her limbs and body are in space. This is especially useful for dogs with vestibular disease as they have trouble with orientation and balance.


4. If possible, try to avoid adding “human food” or a new dog food to your dog’s meals as this may cause GI upset. Instead, you can make his or her normal food more palatable and easier to chew by moistening it with some warm water or low-sodium chicken broth.

Alternatively, you can form easy-to-grab “meatballs” out of canned food. These meatballs can make it easy to hand-feed your dog if the bowl is too difficult in the early stages of recovery.

Initially, your dog may drop a lot of food on the floor. This is often part of the process so don’t be alarmed. Instead, plan to feed him or her somewhere that is easy to clean up. Patiently put the food back in the dish or hand it to your pup again when it gets dropped.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

User avatar
Michaela
Member
Posts: 148
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Nikki
My name: Michaela

Re: Old Dog Vestibular Disease & Cancer

Post by Michaela » 04 Apr 2023, 06:51

GREAT NEWS!!!

Nikki ate three small meals of her regular food yesterday; she seems to improve daily. I ended up getting some freeze-dried liver to sprinkle on her food and that was a big hit :)

R.I.P. Nikki 11/21/2009 - 05/23/2023

Nikki was diagnosed with EPI in 2010
Royal Canin Gastrointestinal Low Fat canned
Slippery Elm syrup for stomach issues
1 tsp Pan-Tenex enzymes with each meal
Weekly B12 shots, pills didn't work for her
Tylan for life


"If there ever comes a day when we can't be together, keep me in your heart, I'll stay there forever."

User avatar
jilbert57
Staff
Posts: 2092
Country: United States
State: Washington

Re: Old Dog Vestibular Disease & Cancer

Post by jilbert57 » 04 Apr 2023, 09:02

Glad to hear she ate!

Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.

Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014

Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.

User avatar
Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 3858
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: Old Dog Vestibular Disease & Cancer

Post by Olesia711 » 04 Apr 2023, 10:55

Hi Michaela,

I am so happy (and relieved!!!) to hear this!!! i personally get very frustrated when (for whatever reason) any dog of mine doesn't want to eat....
BUT.... i have to admit... i am so sorry i never thought to mention using freeze dried liver... i do that now with my current dog who wasn't interested in food for the longest time (as a puppy), and then i bought those "Stewart's Freeze Dried Liver Treats" and what i do is i use a grater and sprinkle a fine dusting of that liver on top of his food.... he gobbles it up. Of course he now has a great appetite...so i didn't think of it......my apologies!!!!! but glad you figured it out!!
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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