New EPI diagnosis, Felina does not like the enzymes

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Johnnycake
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Country: United States
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Pet name: Johnny
My name: MacKenzie

Re: New EPI diagnosis, Felina does not like the enzymes

Post by Johnnycake » 12 Nov 2022, 14:42

Some things that really help Johnny want to eat his food:

*mixing in a freeze dried/dehydrated food he loves and can tolerate (we use Grandma Lucy’s with a lot of success but there are a lot of options)
*goat milk
*cottage cheese
*eggs
*raw mixed in (for example this morning he got chopped raw beef tongue and a duck’s foot)
*canned green tripe

I usually mix the enzymes and the supplemental foods, and then mix those into the kibble!

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Olesia711
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Re: New EPI diagnosis, Felina does not like the enzymes

Post by Olesia711 » 12 Nov 2022, 20:30

Hi Sue,

You have been given some great suggestions and, as you already picked up on, sometimes the smallest little change can make a huge difference with these dogs.

But i do want to mention one thing.... your dog needs B12 supplementation.... her B12 is way too low for an EPI dog. with an EPI dog, although they "suggest" 400 is okay...we found that these dogs B12 plummets quickly, and especially when they have raging SID, which your dog also does (all that tummy grumbling, etc.)... well SID munches away at any B12 stores in the body... so i strongly suggest getting some B12 for Felina. (BTW...beautiful name!) You want to see a cobalamin level at the minimum in the upper 500's but we typically say at least 600's. Many of these dogs, after B12 supplementation, have cobalamin levels in the 1000s... and do very well.

You cn order Pet Factor B12 from Wonderlabs.... this product appears to be one of the better B12 products for our EPI dogs. It is made with Methylcobalamin B12 (excellent) with Folate and Intrinsic Factor....
https://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=K9688

Or... if you want, in the meantime, go to the store and just purchase B12 pills.... she would need daily 1,000 mcg of B12 (Cyanocobalamin B12 is the most common version used in many B12 pills).... until you can get the Pet Factor B12... or if your vet prescribes one, he will probably recommend Cobalaquin....




.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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sue_annie
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Pet name: Felina
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Re: New EPI diagnosis, Felina does not like the enzymes

Post by sue_annie » 13 Nov 2022, 13:25

Hi Olesia,

Some great suggestions indeed! I have tried many of these, and it is still a huge struggle.

Dollops of yummy stuff on top (tuna, pate, wet food/gravy, dehydrated toppers, etc) and she just eats the yummy stuff and doesn't touch the enzyme food. Tried sandwiching the enzyme food (mixed w a little chicken stock, then into some pate) between the kibble and topped with yummies/dehydrated food, and same story.

This morning we did that last method, she ate half of it and is obviously still hungry but now doesn't even want food without the enzymes from her bowl. It's so frustrating and worrisome.

I'm going to try the 'meatballs' next. She always itches her nose after she's had it in her bowl of enzyme food (or plate of food) and generally looks bummed after she's eaten the enzymes. Poor girl :-(

Thanks for the extra info on the B12. We actually met with a pet nutritionist yesterday, and she too said we need to be giving her that so we are going to start the B12 today. She also recommended a new enzyme that also has some probiotics in it, along with some superfoods. The enzymes smell awful, and she can detect them in anything. So fingers crossed new ones will be more palatable!

I appreciate all the info :-)
Felina is a 2 yr old Mexican Street Dog (she's all the breeds) Diagnosed with EPI via TLI blood test 10/2022. B12 was 356, Folate >24, TLI 0.2
She has not lost weight, does not have stool issues, but has crazy gurgly stomach issues and an intense need to eat grass in these times.
She's on prescription diet for now: 1 1/2 C Royal Canin GI low-fat kibble, 1/2 can Hill ID low-fat wet food and 1 1/2 tsp of Enzyme Diane (just switched from EpiZyme at 1 Tbsp) per meal. 2 meals/day
SHE HATES THE ENZYMES!! Does NOT want to eat them, and currently figuring out our delivery method to get her to eat them

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sue_annie
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Country: United States
State: Oregon
Pet name: Felina
My name: Sue

Re: New EPI diagnosis, Felina does not like the enzymes

Post by sue_annie » 13 Nov 2022, 13:37

Johnny and Pam- thanks so much for the suggestions!

We have tried many of those things, with not much success. But cottage cheese is new, and the canned trip I almost bought yesterday, but figured we'd try some other things first. So will prob go get that today. If she can detect it AT ALL, she just eats around it. I'm worried she's not getting enough food- with or without enzymes. Broth, pates, gravy/wet food, dehydrated toppers, etc. don't seem to fool her well enough. She eats some of it, but not all of it.

The struggle continues...
Felina is a 2 yr old Mexican Street Dog (she's all the breeds) Diagnosed with EPI via TLI blood test 10/2022. B12 was 356, Folate >24, TLI 0.2
She has not lost weight, does not have stool issues, but has crazy gurgly stomach issues and an intense need to eat grass in these times.
She's on prescription diet for now: 1 1/2 C Royal Canin GI low-fat kibble, 1/2 can Hill ID low-fat wet food and 1 1/2 tsp of Enzyme Diane (just switched from EpiZyme at 1 Tbsp) per meal. 2 meals/day
SHE HATES THE ENZYMES!! Does NOT want to eat them, and currently figuring out our delivery method to get her to eat them

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Olesia711
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Posts: 3857
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: New EPI diagnosis, Felina does not like the enzymes

Post by Olesia711 » 13 Nov 2022, 13:48

don't bother with the new enzymes..... if powder, she will most likely still ahve the same reaction... AND you are better off adding your own brand of probiotics to an enzyme since not all probiotics achieve what they are supposed to with an EPI dog... you often have to try various probiotics.

SOOOOOOOOOOOOoo.... do do the B12!
BUT.... for the enzymes.... take the enzymes you currently have.... get some empty gel caps. ... pour the designated amount of enzymes she needs with her meals and into empty gel caps.... let her take a few bites of food... (with no enzymes in it) then give her some of the enzyme filled capsules..... sometimes you have to tuck these capsules in something soft/pliable..... and some find they need to give 1 extra capsule filled with the powdered enzymes.....see if this works... not the best system... but will work.............

if she STILL won't eat.... then you might want to try CREON......... but quite honestly.... do whatever you can to get her to eat food with these enzymes on it. even if she has to go a couple of days without eating...... sometimes this is what it takes.....................

Also................. we have seen some dogs refuse their food with the enzymes in it..... BUT.............once you get their SID (small intestinal dysbiosis) under good control... then they decide that the enzymes don't taste so bad after all.......... just saying that this is another possibility..........although probably remote, but still a possibility.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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