Long post but MAJOR help needed!
Fisher is 8 years old. In March 2020 he started w loose stools. After no success w vet we took to see a specilaist. iMS did an ultrasound (neg). Ran GI panel.
Cobalamin 313
Folate 7.6 (low)
Pancreatic Lipase 191
TLI- >50
Dr started on B12 shots weekly. Then every month. Metronidazole and Hill biome diet and boiled chicken breast
(Told likely IBS)
Did great! Solid poops.
Aug 2022. Needed anal glands suppressed. One swollen. Vet puts on rimadyl.
Starts diarrhea. Vet puts on probiotic. Met, and omeprazole. Poops begin to form BUT I notice he’s pooping mass quantity 3-4 times a day. I’d say 5-6 times his normal amount (used to be twice a day). They’re formed but mushy to pick up.
Suddenly he’s ravenous. Eating like crazy and begging for more food. Looks like losing weight
Oct 7. Take to vet. 78pounds to 66 pounds. Vet tells me feed him extra. Grrrr
We take to IMD last week. Bloodwork and GI panel. Lost another two pounds
ALT -550
Cobalamin >1000
Folate 16.3
Pancreatic Lipase >30
TLI- 4.6
They want ultrasound. Everything clear.
Do endoscopy- see a swollen intestine and biopsy. I’m waiting results.
He’s on:
Probiotic in morning
Omeprazole in morning
Tylan at night
Pepcid at night
30 mins after he eats, he passes loud gas and you can hear stomach churning. If you lay hand on belly, you feel the bubbling.
He’s pooping 4-5 times a day. If he has Immodium the stool gets more firm. After the endoscopy he went back to diarrhea mush.
I need thought. Suggestions. Anything to help this beautiful, strong born. Please.
Does this sound like EPI? IMS says he must be below 2.5 TLI
Pics- one Aug. one October.
Is this EPI? My poor dog needs help
-
- Member
- Posts: 2
- Country: United States
- State: Connecticut
- Pet name: Fisher
- My name: Kristine
- Olesia711
- Founder & Research Director
- Posts: 3858
- Location: North Carolina
- Country: United States
- State: North Carolina
- Pet name: Izzy
- My name: olesia
Re: Is this EPI? My poor dog needs help
thanks for posting the time line of events... very helpful!
Your vet is correct that your dog is not "clinically" EPI unless the TLI value is 2.5 or below BUT...... with a TLI value of 4.6 something hinky is going on with the Pancreas and it is now suggested, when the TLI comes back below 5.7 and if you ARE seeing physical signs or EPI, even though not clinically EPI... go ahead and treat with enzymes for now and retest in the near future. (TAMU recommends to retest in a month, but EPi4Dogs would like to suggest retesting in 3 months.... as sometimes it takes more than a month for EPI to come to full fruition with some dogs if whatever is going on is EPI developing)
Here is the ACTUAL suggested protocol from Texas A&M:
In dogs, values below 2.5 µg/L are diagnostic for EPI. Values between 3.5 and 5.7 µg/L are rarely if ever associated with signs of EPI but may reflect subclinical pancreatic disease such as subtotal pancreatic acinar cell destruction secondary to on-going immune-mediated lymphocytic pancreatitis. Progression of the disease in such patients may ultimately lead to EPI. Values between 2.5 and 3.5 µg/L are sometimes (but rarely) associated with clinical signs due to EPI. In these cases the TLI assay should be repeated after one month paying particular attention to ensuring that food is withheld for 12 to 15 hours before the blood sample is collected.
SOOOOOOOooooooooooo all this to say, tell your vet you want your dog on pancreatic enzymes now and you would like to run another TLI test in the very near future.........
Your vet is correct that your dog is not "clinically" EPI unless the TLI value is 2.5 or below BUT...... with a TLI value of 4.6 something hinky is going on with the Pancreas and it is now suggested, when the TLI comes back below 5.7 and if you ARE seeing physical signs or EPI, even though not clinically EPI... go ahead and treat with enzymes for now and retest in the near future. (TAMU recommends to retest in a month, but EPi4Dogs would like to suggest retesting in 3 months.... as sometimes it takes more than a month for EPI to come to full fruition with some dogs if whatever is going on is EPI developing)
Here is the ACTUAL suggested protocol from Texas A&M:
In dogs, values below 2.5 µg/L are diagnostic for EPI. Values between 3.5 and 5.7 µg/L are rarely if ever associated with signs of EPI but may reflect subclinical pancreatic disease such as subtotal pancreatic acinar cell destruction secondary to on-going immune-mediated lymphocytic pancreatitis. Progression of the disease in such patients may ultimately lead to EPI. Values between 2.5 and 3.5 µg/L are sometimes (but rarely) associated with clinical signs due to EPI. In these cases the TLI assay should be repeated after one month paying particular attention to ensuring that food is withheld for 12 to 15 hours before the blood sample is collected.
SOOOOOOOooooooooooo all this to say, tell your vet you want your dog on pancreatic enzymes now and you would like to run another TLI test in the very near future.........
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........
- Jean
- Forum Director
- Posts: 1707
- Location: South Liverpool
- Country: United Kingdom - England
- Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
- My name: Jean
Re: Is this EPI? My poor dog needs help
Good morning from the UK
Certainly sounds like you are heading in the direction of EPI
the rumbling tum is indicitive of SID Small Intestinal Dysbiosis sometimes called SIBO Small intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth , and in someways easier to get your head round in understanding what it is
This means Fisher has bad bugs in his gut /belly
so regarding the Tylan which you are giving is what we recommend
this is the Tylan doseage chart
https://epi4dogs.com/antibiotics/
And should be given twice daily, with several hours between doseage, so with breakfast, and evening meal if possible, you say you are only giving at night , it needs to be as I said twice a day
in a way the vet was right in giving more food
the recommendation is to give 50% over and above the instructions on the food for the weigh Fisher SHOULD be over a few meals a day if that's possible
I can understand the Imodium working but why is my thought
what are you feeding ? what brand and variety, how much per feed and how often
have you had his Tyroid checked? that can cause ravenous appetite and rapid weight loss
has the vet said anything about enzymes for Fisher ?
keep a diary and have a look at our new template
https://epi4dogs.com/epi-log/?fbclid=Iw ... T-ed7hxG84
very useful
are you still giving Metro ?
I am sorry about all of the questions but if you can bear with us we can hopefully help
Jxx
Certainly sounds like you are heading in the direction of EPI
the rumbling tum is indicitive of SID Small Intestinal Dysbiosis sometimes called SIBO Small intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth , and in someways easier to get your head round in understanding what it is
This means Fisher has bad bugs in his gut /belly
so regarding the Tylan which you are giving is what we recommend
this is the Tylan doseage chart
https://epi4dogs.com/antibiotics/
And should be given twice daily, with several hours between doseage, so with breakfast, and evening meal if possible, you say you are only giving at night , it needs to be as I said twice a day
in a way the vet was right in giving more food
the recommendation is to give 50% over and above the instructions on the food for the weigh Fisher SHOULD be over a few meals a day if that's possible
I can understand the Imodium working but why is my thought
what are you feeding ? what brand and variety, how much per feed and how often
have you had his Tyroid checked? that can cause ravenous appetite and rapid weight loss
has the vet said anything about enzymes for Fisher ?
keep a diary and have a look at our new template
https://epi4dogs.com/epi-log/?fbclid=Iw ... T-ed7hxG84
very useful
are you still giving Metro ?
I am sorry about all of the questions but if you can bear with us we can hopefully help
Jxx
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk
I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of
My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day
Lowest weight 39 pounds
We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules
Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM
Jeanx
I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of
My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day
Lowest weight 39 pounds
We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules
Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM
Jeanx
Re: Is this EPI? My poor dog needs help
Welcome to the forum. Mickey had chronic pancreatitis and when the vet ran bloods his Tli was >50 but the pancreatic lipase was >1000. Started him on porcine enzymes and on retest in 3mos his Tli was at 25 but Pli remained elevated >1000. He was fed macaroni and hard boiled egg with enzymes and supplement and he did well.
The vet started him on Pancreazyme but after that I switched to Enzyme Diane as her enzymes are less cost and a great product
www.enzymediane.com. The enzymes are NOT prescription you can buy them over the internet.
Also you can get a sample pack and call and ask her help.
Jill
The vet started him on Pancreazyme but after that I switched to Enzyme Diane as her enzymes are less cost and a great product
www.enzymediane.com. The enzymes are NOT prescription you can buy them over the internet.
Also you can get a sample pack and call and ask her help.
Jill
My name is Jill and we live on the Hood Canal in Washington State. We currently have 2 Jack russells, TJ is 8 and Sadie is 2.
Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014
Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.
Mickey and his pancreatitis brought me to Epi4dogs.com site in 2012 to help manage it.
He lived from 6/99 - 8/2014
Mickey, Jack Russell. Chronic Pancreatitis. Dianes enzymes, 1/8t 3x/day with meals.
-
- Member
- Posts: 2
- Country: United States
- State: Connecticut
- Pet name: Fisher
- My name: Kristine
Re: Is this EPI? My poor dog needs help
Tylan question- so if he was prescribed a 1/4 tsp daily I should give 1/8 with each mean instead? Or ask for them to double the dose and do 1/4 with each meal?
I haven’t switched foods because he has not been diagnosed. He could have IBD. I’m waiting for endo biopsies done last Th. I don’t want to give him grain free food if high fiber food is what he needs for IbD.
The internal med dr wants me to wait until Biopsy results come back.
She said to give Gas X for stomach gurgles. It’s a soft gel capsule but I see peppermint is in ingredients. Is this ok?
I haven’t switched foods because he has not been diagnosed. He could have IBD. I’m waiting for endo biopsies done last Th. I don’t want to give him grain free food if high fiber food is what he needs for IbD.
The internal med dr wants me to wait until Biopsy results come back.
She said to give Gas X for stomach gurgles. It’s a soft gel capsule but I see peppermint is in ingredients. Is this ok?
- Jean
- Forum Director
- Posts: 1707
- Location: South Liverpool
- Country: United Kingdom - England
- Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
- My name: Jean
Re: Is this EPI? My poor dog needs help
the dosage was was worked out by a vet for us. and based on the weight of the dog, and the recommendation is to be given twice daily
so for 60-70 pound dog would be 1/4 teaspoon twice daily
l
AS for the Gas X it seems to be ok for dogs
so for 60-70 pound dog would be 1/4 teaspoon twice daily
l
AS for the Gas X it seems to be ok for dogs
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk
I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of
My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day
Lowest weight 39 pounds
We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules
Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM
Jeanx
I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of
My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day
Lowest weight 39 pounds
We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules
Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM
Jeanx
Re: Is this EPI? My poor dog needs help
We used Gas-X for Kolby, to prevent bloating.....one gelcap each day (125 mg simethicone) recommended by our vet at the time and it was fine.
Barb
Barb
- Jean
- Forum Director
- Posts: 1707
- Location: South Liverpool
- Country: United Kingdom - England
- Pet name: Kara, lost 10th May 2019
- My name: Jean
Re: Is this EPI? My poor dog needs help
remember it well Barb
My name is Jean we live in Liverpool in Uk
I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of
My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day
Lowest weight 39 pounds
We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules
Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM
Jeanx
I am the Forum Director which I am very proud of
My Kara born 21 July 2009 diagnosed with EPI by cTLI test August 2010 TLI = <1...folate 14 Cobalamin 408, shot down to 94, b12 injections every other day
Lowest weight 39 pounds
We used Panzym enzymes, Tylan and Chemeyes b12 capsules
Sadly, on 10th May 2019, we lost her to DM
Jeanx
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 239 guests