SID - Relapsing on Tylan

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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shellie@jester7.com
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Posts: 3
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Odin
My name: Shellie

SID - Relapsing on Tylan

Post by shellie@jester7.com » 09 May 2022, 20:18

I have a 1.5 year old Doberman named Odin. He is currently 82 lbs, good weight and a healthy coat. I have his lab results from June of last year showing Spec cPL: 98, TLI: 17.5, B12: 498, Folate: 24 (ref range/units: ug/L) He said everything is in the normal range except for his Folate which is high. We changed his food to Purina Pro Plan EN for Gastro and started him on Tylan - 1/4 tsp twice a day. He really improved and we had less tummy noise and normal poops.

After about 3-4 months he started to go back to a looser stool with occasional watery stool. We very slowly added in a probiotic, Vetriscience and his poops got worse. Since then the doctor gave him Flagyl, which only firmed his stools up to a pudding consistency and still bright orange, then tried to change his food to Hills prescription Z/D, which in small amounts made his poops worse. We stopped trying to change his food and the doctor gave him a B12 shot and something else for inflammation. Since he was about 8 months old he has had blood in his stools and the doctor said it is from inflammation.

Currently, he is on the same EN Purina dog food and taking Tylan 1/4 tsp twice daily. His poops are getting more watery. I don't know what else to do. He isn't losing weight and the blood in his stool has cleared up , but still it's getting watery again. If anyone has any suggestions, I would really appreciate it. I've read so many of your posts and articles from TAMU, but I don't know what to try next. My vet will work with me and is open to suggestions. Thanks in advance!

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Olesia711
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Location: North Carolina
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Re: SID - Relapsing on Tylan

Post by Olesia711 » 09 May 2022, 21:08

I am SOOOOoooooo sorry you and Odin are going thru all of this. From the blood tests, it is not EPI, however... it sounds like possible IBD.. my understanding is that watery stools often mean a food intolerance.

However, the bleed and everything else... sure sounds like SID also.

Just to try something to see if it would help, just in case this is not IBD... get a jar of SLippery Elm powder (it's cheap) you can either get a jar from wonderlabs or a bottle of NOW Slippery Elm powder from Amazon... or if you live near a health food store they most likely will have loose slippery elm powder there, you an buy a pinch for probably $2.

give 1/2 tsp of this powder mixed in with some damp food.... i am wondering because if this is all SID, it is possible that the mucilage properties will "soothe" all the itty bitty perforations cause by SID in the gut and may help not let bad metabolites get thru (this is what the researchers at TAMU think SLippery Elm does) and it might help... or not... but worth trying.

The other thing is, if this is a food sensitivity..... i know you mentioned you tried the Z/d food which is a hydrolyzed food, if i remember correctly.... and that didn't work,
if you want.... do the food sensitivity testing by Dr. Dodd https://hemopet.org/nutriscan/

OR.... talk to your vet and ask if this might be a good case for TAMU test the stools to see what type of bacteria is really messing up your dog's gut flora.... i know there are only 7 major groups of bacteria that TAMU can test for, but it might be worth it.
This is the Dysbiosis test:
https://vetmed.tamu.edu/gilab/service/a ... sis-index/

OR.....you can also try upping the Tylan... with his weight, he should be taking approx 3/8 of a tsp of Tylan.... and a pinch more won't hurt..........

Hopefully one of these suggestions will help!
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

shellie@jester7.com
Member
Posts: 3
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Odin
My name: Shellie

Re: SID - Relapsing on Tylan

Post by shellie@jester7.com » 10 May 2022, 07:43

Thank you, Olesia! This gives me hope. I mentioned having his stool tested at TAMU on my last visit to the doctor, so he knows I'm interested in doing it. I'll get the slippery elm and up his tylan for now. I'll meet with the vet again and order the food sensitivity test. If changing his food will help, then that seems an easy route. I appreciate you and this forum so much!

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Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 2502
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: SID - Relapsing on Tylan

Post by Olesia711 » 10 May 2022, 12:33

SHellie,

Talk to your vet and be sure to do these things one at a time!

First.... just try the slippery elm.... that's easy and cheap.... SLippery ELm works really quick, so you only have to wait at most, 3 days to see if it helps. If it does... then it is a winner. .... if it doesn't then:

Second... up the Tylan and give that about 5 days...... if you don't see an improvement then.... next:

Third... talk to your vet and decide what you should do next, either the (a) Sensitivity test (b) Dysbiosis test at TAMU ... or do both.... this part is up to you...

Please keep us posted and sure hope this helps!!!!
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

shellie@jester7.com
Member
Posts: 3
Country: United States
State: Texas
Pet name: Odin
My name: Shellie

Re: SID - Relapsing on Tylan

Post by shellie@jester7.com » 10 May 2022, 20:57

I'm so glad you clarified! I'll start with the Slippery Elm and see how it goes. Thank you again!

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Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 2502
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: SID - Relapsing on Tylan

Post by Olesia711 » 11 May 2022, 00:04

please keep us posted!
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

mollyseven
Member
Posts: 18
Country: Canada
Pet name: walter
My name: Denise

Re: SID - Relapsing on Tylan

Post by mollyseven » 11 May 2022, 11:58

That folate seems fine to me.
Walters lab results showed folate of 52 which is high. The lab says it should be 7-39

???
Denise

mollyseven
Member
Posts: 18
Country: Canada
Pet name: walter
My name: Denise

Re: SID - Relapsing on Tylan

Post by mollyseven » 06 Jun 2022, 14:20

Wondering if the slippery elm worked? We are still trying to figure out walters ibd or food issues as well.
Hes on a limited ingredient lamb and rice food right now and metronidazole seeing as my vet can only get Tylin as a compounded prescription at 170.00 for 40 days.......she thinks metronidazole is working so we stay with it but this time its just barely working.
I think I'll try the slippery elm as well...... I've tried everything else from probiotics to enzymes to food changes.....
hes 7 months and 90 lbs and doing fine except never had a normal poop off medication.

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Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 2502
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: SID - Relapsing on Tylan

Post by Olesia711 » 07 Jun 2022, 14:55

Hi Denise,

I am going to suggest something that is going to be counter intuitive to the EPI community, but possible with what you "might" be dealing with since your dog doesn't appear to have EPI but does appear to have SID and we just don't know what is triggering it................ try adding fiber... but go with brown rice.. just add 1 tablespoon of cooked brown rice to a few meals... see if that makes things better or worse....................

And Please let me know if this helps or not!
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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