New diagnosis & Raw food

Epi4Dogs Foundation Inc.’s mission is the advancement of science and education relating to EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency), yielding useful insights and positive outcomes in better managing EPI in dogs and cats. Our goals are to support and/or collaborate with veterinary EPI research and researchers, and to promote EPI awareness by educating the general public, pet owners, pet organizations, rescue and shelter organizations, veterinary schools and veterinarians.
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Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 2502
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: New diagnosis & Raw food

Post by Olesia711 » 26 Apr 2022, 23:17

you are more than welcome.

SO.... that stinky gas and tummy grumbling..... that's SID. I too hope that the pre+probiotics will take care of it...sooner rather than later so that you can avoid antibiotics... but, if you have to do a course of Tylan.... that usually will take care of getting SID back in good control.

Keep us posted.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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LT_Kaya
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Posts: 9
Country: Canada
Pet name: Kaya
My name: LT

Re: New diagnosis & Raw food

Post by LT_Kaya » 12 May 2022, 12:10

Another 2 weeks, another 700g (1.7lbs)! She's put on the exact same amount of weight as the 2 weeks prior and went from 20.5kg to 21.2kg.

I've gotten her on Proviable for the past 10 days. It took about 5 days for her poo to firm up again but the tummy rumbles and gas have reduced significantly (from several times a day and toxic smell to less than once a day and "light" smell).

That said, her poo had been more 3 than 2 so I increased the enzyme dosage a bit 4 days ago and we're back to perfect 2. We're going to the vet for her B12 testing next week and I'll ask about Creon as it seems like it might end up less expensive than ordering EnzymeDiane or Pantenex up here in Canada. We're going through it so quickly.

Current protocol:
  • Raw food, about 175% of her normal feeding across 4 meals per day
  • 4 tsp of enzyme per pound of food
  • Proviable once a day
  • B12 injections once a week
I'm feeling very, very lucky that I found this website and its wealth of info when I did and that she's responding so well.
Kaya is a 3.5 y.o. GSD mix. Tested positive for EPI in April 2022. Results: TLI <1, Cobalamin 115, Folate 20.

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Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 2502
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: New diagnosis & Raw food

Post by Olesia711 » 12 May 2022, 19:02

what a great update on Kaya!!! Effectively managing EPI is all about finding the right balance of the recommended protocol.... and it can vary a little bit from one EPI dog to the next... but boy o boy what a difference a little variance can make!

So glad you have found the right balance of things for Kaya..... and yes talk to your vet about trying CREON... if it would be more cost effective for you vs. the powders from the US which i am assuming is high because of shipping and all the out of country costs..... Anyway... ask your vet for a script of CREON 10 or 12 to try.... and when trying it out.... start with opening one capsule and sprinkling it on top of some moist food and feed immediately.... do NOT mix and do NOT let the enzymes incubate.... handling CREON is different from the powders. AND.... with CREON, we do not measure via cup of food like what is done with the powders... but rather try 1 pill per meal, if that creates loose stools.... (and give this 3 days before you decide cause the transit time ( food to poop) can be anywhere from 12 hrs to 72 hrs.. ) then try giving 1 +1/2 capsules..... and if that doesn't firm up the stools then try 2 capsules per meal.

Let us know how this goes.....just keep the powder on hand until you figure out the best method of giving CREON :)
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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Vanessade
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Posts: 8
Country: Canada
Pet name: Finn
My name: Vanessa

Re: New diagnosis & Raw food

Post by Vanessade » 13 May 2022, 11:50

I just wanted to positively endorse Olesia’s advise re CREON. I was having no success feeding my newly diagnosed GSD powdered enzymes at all, however well disguised. Fresh pig’s pancreas worked but with variable results. On Olesia’s advice we changed to CREON and it has been a game changer.
Finn, who was really sick at diagnosis 7 weeks ago has been completely stable for the last 3 weeks and gained back 12lbs already.
The relative benefits of CREON, as we also live in Canada, are;
-Cost. Capsules work out 48c each(I use 2 per day) More cost effective than any powdered product available here due to shipping and import costs.
- No incubation period
- My dog does not refuse to eat it(presumably tasteless) and smell/powder free.
- Instantly obtainable, with vet prescription, from local pharmacy, no waiting or shipping time or Customs delays.
I realize this is still early days but his current protocol is
-Taste of the Wild, Ancient Stream kibble. 2 meals of 2 1/2 cups per day, moistened, again recommend by Olesia for its low fibre and probiotic content.
- 1 CREON capsule per meal, opened and sprinkled over kibble
- 1 capsule Slippery Elm powder
- Weekly B12 injection (I’m still waiting for my Wonderlabs B12 tablet order to be delivered, 6 weeks already)
- 1/4 tsp Tylan per meal, just starting to slowly
reduce after 45 days
- handful of dried liver treats immediately after feeding as a training aid!
He is really doing well and stabilized quickly, wholly due to the advice and support from this site!
Thank you.
Finn is a 2yr old GSD. Tested positive for EPI April 2022. Results TLI<1, Cobalamin 321, Folate 28

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Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 2502
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: New diagnosis & Raw food

Post by Olesia711 » 13 May 2022, 13:25

Hi Vanessa, thank you for sharing this and i am thrilled that our recommendations are working for Finn.... CREON is readily available and inexpensive for those that life in Canada.. so well worth trying- -especially with dogs that have a difficulty with the enzymes... and top that with the exorbitant shipping prices... it is well worth checking into if you live in Canada........ but here in the USA... OMG...CREON is extremely expensive...

i am glad that this alternative option is working for you ..... truth being told, it is good that we even have alternative. Even tough "technically" powder is the best form of enzymes for EPI dogs... it always fascinates me how not all EPI dogs respond accordingly......................
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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LT_Kaya
Member
Posts: 9
Country: Canada
Pet name: Kaya
My name: LT

Re: New diagnosis & Raw food

Post by LT_Kaya » 13 May 2022, 16:46

Thank you so much Vanessa and Olesia! I'll follow your advice once I get my hands on Creon. :)

And yes, the enzymes are turning out to be very expensive because of the shipping and customs costs. It added well over $100 for a 2kg shipment so it adds up quickly.

I'll let you all know how it works out, thank you so much!
Kaya is a 3.5 y.o. GSD mix. Tested positive for EPI in April 2022. Results: TLI <1, Cobalamin 115, Folate 20.

User avatar
Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 2502
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: New diagnosis & Raw food

Post by Olesia711 » 13 May 2022, 20:29

Wow!!! over $100 for shipping and customs... that's NUTS..... it didn't used to be like that but everything has gone crazy lately..........................
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

User avatar
LT_Kaya
Member
Posts: 9
Country: Canada
Pet name: Kaya
My name: LT

Re: New diagnosis & Raw food

Post by LT_Kaya » 07 Jun 2022, 11:55

We were able to start on Creon 10 last Monday and it hasn't been an easy transition so far. We've tried the below and I was about to revert back to enzyme to get her stable again when we finally started getting good results.
  • Monday: 1 pill/meal sprinkled on top of the food
    -> Within less than 24hrs, the poo went from perfect to big beige cowpie. I immediately changed tactic.
  • Tuesday & Wednesday: 2 pills/meal sprinkled on top of the food
    -> Next days: The poo became formed again but soft, quite large and beige
  • Thursday & Friday: 2 pills sprinkled on a treat 5 minutes before each meal
    -> Next days: No change, poo formed but soft, quite large and beige
  • Saturday: 2 pills sprinkled on a treat 10 minutes before each meal
    -> Next day: Poo barely formed to unformed again, large and beige.
  • Since Sunday: 2.5 pills/meal sprinkled on top of the food
    -> Poo getting close to normal. To be continued.
Before the transition, her weight had kept on increasing at her usual 700g/2 weeks so she's got a third of it back on. There was a slight loss in the past week, we'll see how it goes now that we seem to have hit a sweet spot.

When I went to the vet to get her B12 tested at the 6 weeks mark, I had to pay for the full EPI testing again. Is that normal or is there a separate B12 test that can be administered? Her results were 223 for B12 (and still <1 TLI and folate went down slightly to 18.5).
Kaya is a 3.5 y.o. GSD mix. Tested positive for EPI in April 2022. Results: TLI <1, Cobalamin 115, Folate 20.

User avatar
Olesia711
Founder & Research Director
Posts: 2502
Location: North Carolina
Country: United States
State: North Carolina
Pet name: Izzy
My name: olesia

Re: New diagnosis & Raw food

Post by Olesia711 » 07 Jun 2022, 14:00

Oh dear.........once the TLI blood test is done and EPI is confirmed (unless you are dealing with a puppy) then there is no need to re-do the EPI test.

THe TLI test is NOT required to do a B12 (Cobalamin) blood test. The B12 blood test is a separate test.

... HOWEVER......it is possible that is still was expensive cause the B12 blood test IS expensive... but you should not have been charged for a TLI test again.............

Regarding the CREON.... go ahead and give 3 capsules (i am assuming you are giving CREON 10 or CREON 12) 10 minutes prior- -see if that works...... and thank you SOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooo much for continuing to try with various techniques....

Some dogs adapt to CREON right away, while with others there is a lot of trial and error..... i hate that you are in the latter group.... but thank you for continuing to try.......The powder enzyme situation is not good at this time so having an alternative would be a good thing.

Please continue to keep us posted.
Olesia, was owned by Izzy, a 35lb Spanish Water Dog (SWD), Diagnosed at 1.5 years old - TLI results 1.. Izzy passed away on February 13, 2020 at 15 years old. She lived with EPI for 13+1/2 years. It was because of Izzy that Epi4Dogs was started... she was the inspiration. May her legacy of helping others with EPI continue for as long as needed.........

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